Hello Peter

Thx! This gives:

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil,RinceWynd & EntilZha.

Mark & Olegil for helping in management, hnl_dk & EntilZha for coding support.

RinceWynd for PR.

BTW, you could start on the mission statement ;)

Regards

Hello Andy

On 11/01/2005, you wrote:

On 11/1/05 9:50 pm, "Christophe Ochal" ochal@kefren.be wrote:

...

Thx! This gives:

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil,RinceWynd & EntilZha.

Mark & Olegil for helping in management, hnl_dk & EntilZha for coding support.

RinceWynd for PR.

BTW, you could start on the mission statement ;)

Aw man, I didn't make it onto the list! This is the year 9 football team all over again ;-)

Serious question: Is the Human Resources list on the forum complete now? Is that everyone who's come forward so far? I'm sure there are a couple of people who are active on this ML that aren't on that list.

Yea, i need to go over it asap & see if it's still up to date

Regards

Hello Thomas

On 11/01/2005, you wrote:

Hi,

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil,RinceWynd & EntilZha.

Sorry, my time is extremely limited, and I'd rather spend it on productive work than management... What exactly would the position "coding support" include ?

Help make technicall calls, not really management, but if there are multiple choices to proceed with to help me decide the best one.

Regards

Hello Thomas

On 12/01/2005, you wrote:

Hi,

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

...

Sorry, my time is extremely limited, and I'd rather spend it on productive work than management... What exactly would the position "coding support" include ?

Help make technicall calls, not really management, but if there are multiple choices to proceed with to help me decide the best one.

Still sounds like too much work for me... sorry..

To bad, but not really a problem, *looks at list* how about you Rogue? Basicly, it needs to be someone fairly knowledgeable about AmigaOS & C++

Regards

Op 12-jan-05 om 10:44 heeft Hans-Joerg Frieden het volgende geschreven:

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

To bad, but not really a problem, *looks at list* how about you Rogue? Basicly, it needs to be someone fairly knowledgeable about AmigaOS & C++

I see that Henning has already accepted the position :-)

I actually wanted 2 guys ;)

---- Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net

Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:

Ochal Christophe wrote:

...

I actually wanted 2 guys ;)

Seeing how big the backlog is, what exactly would this position mean?

Regards,

Its basically about saying:

Arrgghh dont do that

or

Yes thats more or less the right way to push things

(basically what you're doing at the moment)

As with any project the management team are not as technically adept as the members of the team, therefore someone needs to be able to provide info/translations to us when we're discussing options.

so for example we would come to you and say

person A reckons we should plug the sprocket into the widget (and why)

person B reckons the sprocket should go into the gadget (and why)

You advise on best route. We tell em to do it ;-)

At least thats my take (Amon_Re correct me if I'm wrong)

I would also point out that as this is a volunteer project the project team are going to have to take into account the time constraints involved (ie lack of time on most peoples part) as such one of the first things (probably) that needs to happen is for us to determine who is available to do any coding (from the 12 ish coders on the list) and what time they have available.

Thanks Mark

well, since I don't have OS4 or anything to run it, it's sorta hard to do upfront coding per se. (except for the modules mentionned so far that could be coded with OS 3.1 (like aspell for example was mentionned).

AS far as my schedule goes, it can vary some as the rest of my days can vary just as much :-). Per week however I can probably easily put a good 20 to 30 hours of programming (maybe more too but just at different times on different days and different weeks). morning on some days, evening and late evening on others.

In the spirit of the KISS method, I would have to advise to keep things as independant as possible. As in if there's a "reasonable way" to do something without relying on 3rd party projects, I'd vote for that (provided it doesn't mean we double the length of the project :-). but for 5% to 10% faster time because we're using that 3rd party library or binding, to me that would be almost negligeable in my vote to not use the given library or binding. This way we're well independant and have 100% control over what the 3rd party lib or binding would have done. This ultimately always ends up in faster debugging time at the end, at least it's been my observations in my other programming projects.

Equation: If TimeSavedBy3rdParty > TimeToDebug3rdParty Then UseIt Else DoNot ;-)

------------------------------ "On Error Goto Hell" ;-)

Stephane Richard aka MystikShadows Software Developer (and AmigaOne wannabe ;-) srichard@adaworld.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "Ochal Christophe" ochal@kefren.be To: openoffice-os4@samfundet.no Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:31 AM Subject: Re: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Management Commitee

Op 12-jan-05 om 14:15 heeft Mark bond het volgende geschreven:

...

At least thats my take (Amon_Re correct me if I'm wrong)

That's precisely what i meant ;)

...

I would also point out that as this is a volunteer project the project team are going to have to take into account the time constraints involved (ie lack of time on most peoples part) as such one of the first things (probably) that needs to happen is for us to determine who is available to do any coding (from the 12 ish coders on the list) and what time they have available.

True

---

Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net

---

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Then I have to assume my first reply didn't go through, or, got lost in the stream of messages. :-)

Among others I'm sure, I would be the first one to take advantage of this offer ;-).

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Molenaar" pjmolenaar@bezeqint.net To: openoffice-os4@samfundet.no Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Management Commitee

Hi Stephane,

...

well, since I don't have OS4 or anything to run it, it's sorta hard to

do

...

upfront coding per se. (except for the modules mentionned so far that

could

...

be coded with OS 3.1 (like aspell for example was mentionned).

Let me repeat an offer I made earlier: I might be able to provide access (firewalls and such providing) to my A-One via VNC if a programmer without an OS4 machine would be interested. Every OS4 release that's publicly available is installed, including the SDK.

Kind regards,

RinceWynd Peter Molenaar

---

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stephane richard wrote:

well, since I don't have OS4 or anything to run it, it's sorta hard to do upfront coding per se. (except for the modules mentionned so far that could be coded with OS 3.1 (like aspell for example was mentionned).

AS far as my schedule goes, it can vary some as the rest of my days can vary just as much :-). Per week however I can probably easily put a good 20 to 30 hours of programming (maybe more too but just at different times on different days and different weeks). morning on some days, evening and late evening on others.

In the spirit of the KISS method, I would have to advise to keep things as independant as possible. As in if there's a "reasonable way" to do something without relying on 3rd party projects, I'd vote for that (provided it doesn't mean we double the length of the project :-). but for 5% to 10% faster time because we're using that 3rd party library or binding, to me that would be almost negligeable in my vote to not use the given library or binding. This way we're well independant and have 100% control over what the 3rd party lib or binding would have done. This ultimately always ends up in faster debugging time at the end, at least it's been my observations in my other programming projects.

Equation: If TimeSavedBy3rdParty > TimeToDebug3rdParty Then UseIt Else DoNot ;-)

Bear in mind there are some dependencies that are simply not a realistic option to re-write. We evidently need a [tc]sh, we're going to need a pthreads implementation, and other things. Wherever these come from that already exist, and hopefully work(!), will save significant amount of time over writing everything from scratch, unless I'm misunderstanding your point here?

OO as a large project has a good number of dependencies, none of which I think should arbitrarilt be 'replaced' because they're external. Virtually ever open source project has some 'external' dependencies. We should, however, if given the option, designate a specific version or version range for internal build work and porting efforts however, so as not to overly complicate (or break!) things..

Scott

---

"On Error Goto Hell" ;-)

Stephane Richard aka MystikShadows Software Developer (and AmigaOne wannabe ;-) srichard@adaworld.com

[snip]

Peter Bengtsson wrote:

Less than 100 mails in a day?! Are people catching up on lost sleep? :-)

(Or catching up on work, like me... wrote a small webserver today among other things.)

On 2005-01-12, Scott W wrote:

...

stephane richard wrote:

<SNIP>

...

...

Equation: If TimeSavedBy3rdParty > TimeToDebug3rdParty Then UseIt Else DoNot ;-)

Bear in mind there are some dependencies that are simply not a realistic option to re-write. We evidently need a [tc]sh, we're going to need a pthreads implementation, and other things. Wherever these come from that already exist, and hopefully work(!), will save significant amount of time over writing everything from scratch, unless I'm misunderstanding your point here?

I think the point was that _some_ things can be easier to re-write than to port their dependancies. Example:

If getopt is used in only 1 place and only to parse the commanline parameters to the main OOo binary, it may well be easier to rewrite the argument parser than to port getopt().

(Besides which, I have written an argument parser which I find to be superior to getopt in almost all cases :o)

Peter- you too? ('redid' getopt) ;-)

I may very well have missed the part stating this was only be directed towards _some_ things...I did actually look, but didn't see anything other than the quote here...if so, sorry 'bout that, and totally agree based on your example and similar cases...

Scott

-Peter aka. Archprogrammer

Reality is for people who cannot face ScienceFiction. Only lefthanded people are in their right minds.

---

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Op 13-jan-05 om 08:59 heeft Andy Hall het volgende geschreven:

I've been quiet because I had an exam yesterday and another one today :-(

Hope it went well?

I think the main reason is that a lot of the issues that we causing the most discussion have been resolved, or will be on IRC. Something seems to have clicked organisation wise.

Who'd have guessed? ;)

---- Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net

Hi,

Peter Bengtsson wrote:

If getopt is used in only 1 place and only to parse the commanline parameters to the main OOo binary, it may well be easier to rewrite the argument parser than to port getopt().

See my other mail... if it's getopt, it's in clib2 (getopt_long isn't).

Regards,

Hakuna Matata, Sascha 'SieGeL' Pfalz!

and this seems to be a problem as OO is coded in C++

<horrible_joke> The least you'd expect from a project nicknamed "OO" is for it to be coded in C++ :D </horrible_joke>

/me runs away and hides...

Hakuna Matata, Sascha 'SieGeL' Pfalz!

used my brain before joining, I do not think that I can be of much use

here...

Sorry... it was not intended as a personal offence, it was just a joke... :)

Op 12-jan-05 om 13:43 heeft Hans-Joerg Frieden het volgende geschreven:

Ochal Christophe wrote:

...

I actually wanted 2 guys ;)

Seeing how big the backlog is, what exactly would this position mean?

It's more a kind of technical advisor position ;) Say we need to port xyz, but there are different approuches possible, you could provide technical argumentation why approuch A is better then B but worse then C.

That kind of things really

Hope that makes sense ;) ---- Ochal Christophe Verantwoordelijke Technische Dienst Fem Computer Systems NV Dendermondsesteenweg 7 9300 Aalst Tel: 053/771816 Fax: 053/214628 Email: co@fem.be

Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:

Ochal Christophe wrote:

...

It's more a kind of technical advisor position ;) Say we need to port xyz, but there are different approuches possible, you could provide technical argumentation why approuch A is better then B but worse then C.

Is there really the need to make this any official? I mean, if in doubt someone would ask Thomas or me anyway about our opinion?

Well, not really. Would make us look cooler, wouldn't it? ;-)

We're trying to pass you off as a brandname here, watch out :-P

Ole-Egil

Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:

Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:

...

Well, not really. Would make us look cooler, wouldn't it? ;-)

We're trying to pass you off as a brandname here, watch out :-P

OK, I accept, but I have to reserve the right to call it quits at any time. My duties on OS 4 must have preceedence.

Regards,

DONE, right wheres the quill and knife, I want this signed in blood ;-)

Mark

Hi !

Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:

Is there really the need to make this any official? I mean, if in doubt someone would ask Thomas or me anyway about our opinion?

Do you remember some of the endless discussions about stuff like int32 vs. word wie had on a certain other list ? Sometimes it's beneficial to have someone who speaks "the last word".

regards

Alexander Lohrmann

Thomas Frieden said:

Hi,

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil,RinceWynd & EntilZha.

Sorry, my time is extremely limited, and I'd rather spend it on productive work than management... What exactly would the position "coding support" include ?

<deja-vu> Saying "nooooo, that's silly" if we come up with a bad idea? </deja-vu>

PS: I shouldn't be joking about deja-vu, as I suffer somewhat badly from them at times. Even second-degree ones. (I'll get the feeling that not only has this happened before, I've had the feeling that this excact thing has happened before, before. my head suddenly feels like it's spinning, a cold shiver runs down my spine, and I have to lie down for a moment. Quite annoying. But as long as I know I'm mad, it's supposedly not that big a deal to live with it :-P ).

Just one minor correction needed, "realize" is American English, I think we should use International English, i.e. "realise"

Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Molenaar" pjmolenaar@bezeqint.net To: openoffice-os4@samfundet.no Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:57 AM Subject: [OO.org-OS4] Mission Statement, alternative 1

Hi all,

Here's my proposal for a Mission Statement:

"Amiga OpenOffice.org is a project to make OpenOffice.org available for AmigaOS. The project's team consists of members from the Amiga Community, who will realize the project in their spare time. Our main focus is AmigaOS4, but we welcome everyone that can contribute to the project, whether she uses AmigaOS4, AmigaOS 3.x, AROS or MorphOS."

It's a tweaked version of the one that Amon_Re wrote down. I'd like to make some remarks on several bits of information it contains.

• The first sentence defines our purpose.
• The first sentence in itself also contains a name for the project:

'Amiga OpenOffice.org'. Although it is also used in Amon_Re's proposal, it's not official yet AFAIK so consider that a proposal on its own.

• The second sentence describes who we are. It also contains a key-value

concerning the nature of the project: it being a part-time effort.

• I left out the 'Help us make it real, join now!'. More help is of

course welcome, but it's not our mission to get more help IMO. Shortly after the IRC sessions I want to inform the outside world about the formation of the management team, the mission statement and what else will be worth mentioning at that time. I consider such a news item a good vessel to invite people to join.

Kind regards,

Rincewynd Peter Molenaar

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On 12/1/05 9:17 am, "Peter Molenaar" pjmolenaar@bezeqint.net wrote:

I agree. Thanks for pointing that one out :-).

-----Original Message----- From: openoffice-os4-admin@samfundet.no [mailto:openoffice-os4-admin@samfundet.no] On Behalf Of David Doyle Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:56 AM To: openoffice-os4@samfundet.no Subject: Re: [OO.org-OS4] Mission Statement, alternative 1

Just one minor correction needed, "realize" is American English, I think we should use International English, i.e. "realise"

Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net

You need to change the "she uses" to "they use" or "he or she uses" as well. I've corrected this on the Wiki version.

Tony Wyatt wrote:

Hi Overlord,

Congratulations! I suppose being elected Overlord here is like being elected Speaker of the Commons in the UK - the newly-elected Speaker has to be escorted to the Chair so that he won't try to escape!

LOL! TIE HIM DOWN! YOU'LL NEVER LEAVE!!! Muahahahahhahahaaa! ;o)

For some reason this mail came from an hour ago, yet I only sent it 2 minutes ago. My clock is right, the server clock is right, now what the heck?

Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:

Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:

...

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil & EntilZha.

Mark & Olegil for helping in management, hnl_dk & EntilZha for coding support.

Not sure that I am good enough (but I will gladly help)

Let's put it this way. Since noone else is offering to help (including EntilZha, but I can understand why he is reluctant :-( ), it's either you or noone. If you, we have a chance. If noone, we don't. :-P

Ole-Egil

Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:

Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:

...

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil & EntilZha.

Mark & Olegil for helping in management, hnl_dk & EntilZha for coding support.

Not sure that I am good enough (but I will gladly help)

Let's put it this way. Since noone else is offering to help (including EntilZha, but I can understand why he is reluctant :-( ), it's either you or noone. If you, we have a chance. If noone, we don't. :-P

no problem... I'll try to do my best ;-)

Ole-Egil

Op 12-jan-05 om 10:44 heeft Thomas Frieden het volgende geschreven:

Hi,

Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:

...

Let's put it this way. Since noone else is offering to help (including EntilZha, but I can understand why he is reluctant :-( ), it's either you or noone. If you, we have a chance. If noone, we don't. :-P

I'm awfully sorry, but I said from the start that I can't be too deeply involved, and I would rather spend my time on coding than on something else...

No need to apologise so often, just tell us when you see us make an awfully bad technical call ;)

---- Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net

Hello Henning

On 12/01/2005, you wrote:

Christophe Ochal wrote:

...

Hello,

I would like to have the following people on the commitee: Mark, hnl_dk, Olegil & EntilZha.

Mark & Olegil for helping in management, hnl_dk & EntilZha for coding support.

Not sure that I am good enough (but I will gladly help)

What we should do is now start to look into is what are the runtime dependencies for OOo, what are the dependencies for cross-compilation & what are the dependencies for native compilation.

DaveyD has installed dotproject on http://dev.amigaopenoffice.org, unless anyone objects i suggest we use that for managing the various bits & pieces.

Regards

Hi,

Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:

I will check out the sources of OOo 1.9.m69 as soon as I have GNU/Linux up and running (sould be within a day or two).

Speaking of source check-out: I tried to get the sources from OOo's CVS, but at one point, it always stops... ahs anybory successfully checked out the source ?

Regards,

Op 12-jan-05 om 10:46 heeft Thomas Frieden het volgende geschreven:

Hi,

Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:

...

I will check out the sources of OOo 1.9.m69 as soon as I have GNU/Linux up and running (sould be within a day or two).

Speaking of source check-out: I tried to get the sources from OOo's CVS, but at one point, it always stops... ahs anybory successfully checked out the source ?

I think Olegil has it on his SVN server.

---- Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net