Hello, I'd like to propose that in an effort to get a bit better organised, that we should start putting together a website. I'm not talking about a pretty look-at-us-we've-got-a-logo-and-cool-project-name site, but rather something that we can use to document decisions and developer info, a single point of reference. Even though nothing has yet started, I would like to get into the habit now, with research and organisational issues. I'm putting myself forward to help get this off the ground. -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Andy On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello,
I'd like to propose that in an effort to get a bit better organised, that we should start putting together a website. I'm not talking about a pretty look-at-us-we've-got-a-logo-and-cool-project-name site, but rather something that we can use to document decisions and developer info, a single point of reference. Even though nothing has yet started, I would like to get into the habit now, with research and organisational issues.
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing? I know we'd need something like bugzilla sooner or later, but you seem to be thinking of other, more direct uses.
I'm putting myself forward to help get this off the ground.
Sounds good to me, how do you wish to proceed? Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi, Christophe Ochal wrote:
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing?
How about a wiki, with login for the list members... Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello Thomas On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
Christophe Ochal wrote:
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing?
How about a wiki, with login for the list members...
Ok, that's a good idea, i'll look into it right away Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
How about an Online collaboration system like http://www.dotproject.net/ and www.php-collab.com and others? might good for a group effort. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 2:11 PM Subject: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Website and documentation
Hello Andy
On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello,
I'd like to propose that in an effort to get a bit better organised, that we should start putting together a website. I'm not talking about a pretty look-at-us-we've-got-a-logo-and-cool-project-name site, but rather something that we can use to document decisions and developer info, a single point of reference. Even though nothing has yet started, I would like to get into the habit now, with research and organisational issues.
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing?
I know we'd need something like bugzilla sooner or later, but you seem to be thinking of other, more direct uses.
I'm putting myself forward to help get this off the ground.
Sounds good to me, how do you wish to proceed?
Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
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Hello stephane On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
How about an Online collaboration system like http://www.dotproject.net/ and www.php-collab.com and others? might good for a group effort.
I'll look into those right away, i'll get back to you & Thomas in abit Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hello stephane
On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
How about an Online collaboration system like http://www.dotproject.net/ and www.php-collab.com and others? might good for a group effort.
I'll look into those right away, i'll get back to you & Thomas in abit
I suggest using the version control system for this. Rather than having forum, codebase, irc, mail AND wiki, we can actually use the codebase (subdir web ;-) ) to build a website, and the web server would just do a nightly "(cvs|svn) update". I'm not against wikis, though. But if you (like me) edit 100% of your text in Emacs, being forced to edit a Wiki (and many of them have rather silly markup :-( ) feels counter-productive. dotProject looks like an ok planning/management tool, though. Except it comes with YET another forum :-P Now, who is our manager (I don't want to know who is willing to do it if noone else can, I want to know who actually feels confident AND willing enough to say "I'll sign up as a candidate") I have some points I want to bring up about version control systems as well. New email coming up. -- We'll double-cross that bridge when we get there.
Hi Eventhough I'm busing with amigaworld.net I'm willing to organise a website for the project and users where we can keep everything under the one roof, but first I need to know the official name so I can design the logo. Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net
On 7/1/05 7:11 pm, "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Andy
On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello,
I'd like to propose that in an effort to get a bit better organised, that we should start putting together a website. I'm not talking about a pretty look-at-us-we've-got-a-logo-and-cool-project-name site, but rather something that we can use to document decisions and developer info, a single point of reference. Even though nothing has yet started, I would like to get into the habit now, with research and organisational issues.
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing?
Initially I'm thinking of just information presented clearly, the most basic of basic sites (obviously it needs a bit of planning, as it will grow very quickly)
I know we'd need something like bugzilla sooner or later, but you seem to be thinking of other, more direct uses.
I think that we'll eventually need a decent CMS, alongside other web based development tools. At this stage in the game we're looking at gathering and organising stuff. For example, there's been quite a few CVS/SVN links flying about on the list and forums which would be good to nail in one place. There's also organisational stuff like the developer list you've gathered.
I'm putting myself forward to help get this off the ground.
Sounds good to me, how do you wish to proceed?
Well the first thing would be to secure some hosting for this thing. Next would be looking at the info we already have and the kind of stuff that's likely to come up in the future, and putting it together in a logical, easy to reference manner. -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Andy On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
On 7/1/05 7:11 pm, "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Andy
On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello,
I'd like to propose that in an effort to get a bit better organised, that we should start putting together a website. I'm not talking about a pretty look-at-us-we've-got-a-logo-and-cool-project-name site, but rather something that we can use to document decisions and developer info, a single point of reference. Even though nothing has yet started, I would like to get into the habit now, with research and organisational issues.
I can get a basic site up & running in less then an hour, but what kind of features would be needed for such a thing?
Initially I'm thinking of just information presented clearly, the most basic of basic sites (obviously it needs a bit of planning, as it will grow very quickly)
This sounds good to me, and it would give Mason something to do in the meanwhile ;)
I know we'd need something like bugzilla sooner or later, but you seem to be thinking of other, more direct uses.
I think that we'll eventually need a decent CMS, alongside other web based development tools. At this stage in the game we're looking at gathering and organising stuff. For example, there's been quite a few CVS/SVN links flying about on the list and forums which would be good to nail in one place. There's also organisational stuff like the developer list you've gathered.
Agreed, i'm going to pm DaveyD to setup a openoffice.amigaworld.net domain & for him to grant me access to it
I'm putting myself forward to help get this off the ground.
Sounds good to me, how do you wish to proceed?
Well the first thing would be to secure some hosting for this thing. Next would be looking at the info we already have and the kind of stuff that's likely to come up in the future, and putting it together in a logical, easy to reference manner.
Thomas's idea for a wiki could be very usefull for that Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
On 7/1/05 7:58 pm, "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Well the first thing would be to secure some hosting for this thing. Next would be looking at the info we already have and the kind of stuff that's likely to come up in the future, and putting it together in a logical, easy to reference manner.
Thomas's idea for a wiki could be very usefull for that
Wiki was one of the systems I had in mind for later (abiword uses their own version of wiki IIRC), if it's easy enough to start up now then it gets my vote. Man, that sounds like I'm doing a "me too" :-) -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Andy On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
On 7/1/05 7:58 pm, "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Well the first thing would be to secure some hosting for this thing. Next would be looking at the info we already have and the kind of stuff that's likely to come up in the future, and putting it together in a logical, easy to reference manner.
Thomas's idea for a wiki could be very usefull for that
Wiki was one of the systems I had in mind for later (abiword uses their own version of wiki IIRC), if it's easy enough to start up now then it gets my vote.
I'm doing some tests locally with phpwiki, it's rather straightforward to setup ;) As soon as the hosting is setup i'll upload phpwiki in a subdir, make a simple welcome page with some info (who were are & what the hell we're trying to pull off) and a link to the wiki with user auth. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello Martin On 07/01/2005, you wrote:
This sounds good to me, and it would give Mason something to do in the meanwhile ;)
Just tell me what you need :-D
Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
What is the official name of the project and/or product? AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4? Kind Regards, Martin "Mason" Merz www.masonicons.de I've seen things you people wouldn't believe...
Hi, Martin Merz wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
How about OpenOffice.org ;) No, really, all platforms call it OpenOffice... It's a "brand" in the meantime, and we should keep the name... Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
On 8/1/05 9:39 am, "Thomas Frieden" <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> wrote:
Hi,
Martin Merz wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
How about OpenOffice.org ;) No, really, all platforms call it OpenOffice... It's a "brand" in the meantime, and we should keep the name...
You mean you don't want to call it AmiOffice? ;-) -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hi Andy On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
Martin Merz wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
How about OpenOffice.org ;) No, really, all platforms call it OpenOffice... It's a "brand" in the meantime, and we should keep the name...
You mean you don't want to call it AmiOffice? ;-)
AmigaOffice sounds kinda nice ;-) Regards Mick aka Sicky -- <tsb>Mick Sutton <tsb>Chairman of SEAL <tsb>South Essex Amiga Link <tsb>http://www.seal-amiga.co.uk <tsb>Using AmigaOne-XE G4 & Amiga OS4
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:03:21 +0000, Mick Sutton <mick.sutton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
You mean you don't want to call it AmiOffice? ;-)
AmigaOffice sounds kinda nice ;-)
Regards
Mick aka Sicky
What's wrong with Open Office? It's what it's called. Not to mentoin a silly issue to quibble over. There are more important issues to use bandwith on.
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 10:03:21 +0000, Mick Sutton <mick.sutton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
You mean you don't want to call it AmiOffice? ;-)
AmigaOffice sounds kinda nice ;-)
Regards
Mick aka Sicky
What's wrong with Open Office? It's what it's called. Not to mentoin a silly issue to quibble over. There are more important issues to use bandwith on.
It is actually OpenOffice.org They may not call it Open Office, be course of a copyright issue. -- Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Hi Chris On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
You mean you don't want to call it AmiOffice? ;-)
AmigaOffice sounds kinda nice ;-)
What's wrong with Open Office? It's what it's called. Not to mentoin a silly issue to quibble over. There are more important issues to use bandwith on.
Sorry! I was being just "tongue in cheek" (funny), Open Office is what it should remain so that the world knows that (hopefully) we have it on the Amiga platform. I shall now go and crawl under a rock! Regards Mick -- <tsb>Mick Sutton <tsb>Chairman of SEAL <tsb>South Essex Amiga Link <tsb>http://www.seal-amiga.co.uk <tsb>Using AmigaOne-XE G4 & Amiga OS4
Thomas Frieden wrote:
Hi,
Martin Merz wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
How about OpenOffice.org ;) No, really, all platforms call it OpenOffice... It's a "brand" in the meantime, and we should keep the name...
totally agree... I am also sure that this would atract more people - people from other platforms would not need to ask: what is ***Office***? They would know from the name :-)
Regards,
Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Hello Thomas On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
Martin Merz wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
How about OpenOffice.org ;) No, really, all platforms call it OpenOffice... It's a "brand" in the meantime, and we should keep the name...
Agreed, the only question i'm stuck with atm is, what do we use for a domain name? Or if we go sourceforge, what name do we give the project itself? Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello Martin On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
What is the official name of the project and/or product?
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
Hasn't been decided yet, suggestions are welcome ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi, Christophe Ochal wrote:
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
Hasn't been decided yet, suggestions are welcome ;)
OpenOffice ? Honestly, DON'T change the name. It's called OpenOffice on any platform, and like Henning already pointed out, if you say "We have AmigaOffice", it's noting, if you say "We have OpenOffice", anybody knows what it is... Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello Thomas On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
Christophe Ochal wrote:
AmigaOpenOffice? AOO? OpenOfficeOS4? OOOS4?
Hasn't been decided yet, suggestions are welcome ;)
OpenOffice ?
Honestly, DON'T change the name. It's called OpenOffice on any platform, and like Henning already pointed out, if you say "We have AmigaOffice", it's noting, if you say "We have OpenOffice", anybody knows what it is...
I agreed to that in another post somewhere already, it's OpenOffice not something else, there only is need for a name for the project (not product), you'd need one on sourceforge, and you'd need one if we do our own site, if we were getting hosted on openoffice.org itself you'd still need to have a name to call the project, be it amiga porting project or something else. Anyway, those are worries for after we get a head honcho inhere ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi, Christophe Ochal wrote:
I agreed to that in another post somewhere already, it's OpenOffice not something else, there only is need for a name for the project (not product), you'd need one on sourceforge, and you'd need one if we do our own site, if we were getting hosted on openoffice.org itself you'd still need to have a name to call the project, be it amiga porting project or something else.
Hmm, right... how about Amiga@OpenOffice.org ;) Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello Thomas On 08/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
Christophe Ochal wrote:
I agreed to that in another post somewhere already, it's OpenOffice not something else, there only is need for a name for the project (not product), you'd need one on sourceforge, and you'd need one if we do our own site, if we were getting hosted on openoffice.org itself you'd still need to have a name to call the project, be it amiga porting project or something else.
Hmm, right... how about Amiga@OpenOffice.org ;)
That's not good, it's an email address, and also, isn't it openoffice at amiga? :P Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hasn't been decided yet, suggestions are welcome ;)
My vote goes towards "OpenOffice.org". I don't think that naming it otherwise makes any sense at all. OpenOffice.org is a brand name that will attract news media and give the Amiga a bit of addiitonal, much needed press coverage. Regards, -- Hans-Joerg Frieden, Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz - I-amar prestar aen / han mathon ne nen han mathon ne chae / a han noston ned 'wilith
Hi all, On 8/01/2005, Hans-Joerg wrote:
My vote goes towards "OpenOffice.org". I don't think that naming it otherwise makes any sense at all. OpenOffice.org is a brand name that will attract news media and give the Amiga a bit of addiitonal, much needed press coverage.
Name of Product: As has been said, we can't use "Open Office" - it's Sun's copyrighted name. I think we shouldn't use "OpenOffice.org" - it is a domain name already, and does not show that we did any work on it at all. I don't like the "Ami" abbreviation as a prefix - it sounds too twee. What about "OpenOffice.Amiga", or "OpenOffice Amiga"? Name of Project: "OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4". cheers tony
I agree we shouldn't use OpenOffice.org because not only is it the product name (which is fine), but it is also the domain name for the product. Imagine for example we have the domain name AmiOpenOffice.org or AmigaOpenOffice.org or whatever and the logo on this site is OpenOffice.org, this would look ridiculous and confusing. Tony in my opinion the 'Ami' abbreviation (pronounced am-ee) is fine, it is often used for amiga products and events How about we list all the options and I create a poll on amigaworld.net and let the amiga community decide the name? I think this would be the ideal solution as no one here will be able to agree. So the options so far are. - AmigaOffice - AmiOpenOffice - OpenOffice.org - OpenOffice Amiga - Amiga OpenOffice and anything else that we can come up with Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Wyatt" <wyattaw@optushome.com.au> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 12:28 AM Subject: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Name
Hi all,
On 8/01/2005, Hans-Joerg wrote:
My vote goes towards "OpenOffice.org". I don't think that naming it otherwise makes any sense at all. OpenOffice.org is a brand name that will attract news media and give the Amiga a bit of addiitonal, much needed press coverage.
Name of Product:
As has been said, we can't use "Open Office" - it's Sun's copyrighted name. I think we shouldn't use "OpenOffice.org" - it is a domain name already, and does not show that we did any work on it at all. I don't like the "Ami" abbreviation as a prefix - it sounds too twee. What about "OpenOffice.Amiga", or "OpenOffice Amiga"?
Name of Project:
"OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4".
cheers tony
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Hi, David Doyle wrote:
So the options so far are.
- AmigaOffice - AmiOpenOffice - OpenOffice.org - OpenOffice Amiga - Amiga OpenOffice and anything else that we can come up with
IF we can't use OpenOffice as name, "OpenOffice" MUST be part of the name still (i.e. as in AmiOpenOffice, or OpenOffice Amiga). Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hi Thomas, On 9/01/2005, you wrote:
IF we can't use OpenOffice as name, "OpenOffice" MUST be part of the name still (i.e. as in AmiOpenOffice, or OpenOffice Amiga).
Agreed. I certainly did not mean to pass it off as our work, under a new name. If all the other ports are called "OpenOffice.org" (yuk, that's horrible), then perhaps we should call our port the same. It's really the ".org" that I object to. It was added years ago, merely to differentiate the Open version from Sun's (closed) "Open Office", and I detest the sound of it. Maybe it sounds better if spoken with an American accent ;-) cheers
Hi, Tony Wyatt wrote:
IF we can't use OpenOffice as name, "OpenOffice" MUST be part of the name still (i.e. as in AmiOpenOffice, or OpenOffice Amiga).
Agreed. I certainly did not mean to pass it off as our work, under a new name.
It's not passing it off as our work, but making use of the momentum of the original name...
If all the other ports are called "OpenOffice.org" (yuk, that's horrible), then perhaps we should call our port the same.
Indeed...
It's really the ".org" that I object to. It was added years ago, merely to differentiate the Open version from Sun's (closed) "Open Office", and I detest the sound of it. Maybe it sounds better if spoken with an American accent ;-)
Naw, don't think so... It's strange, to say the least, but that's what the product is called... Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello All, On 9/1/05 1:15 am, "David Doyle" <david@amigaworld.net> wrote:
I agree we shouldn't use OpenOffice.org because not only is it the product name (which is fine), but it is also the domain name for the product. Imagine for example we have the domain name AmiOpenOffice.org or AmigaOpenOffice.org or whatever and the logo on this site is OpenOffice.org, this would look ridiculous and confusing.
What I find ridiculous is that we still haven't even began to form any kind of organisational structure, and yet the main topic of discussion is what the product that hasn't even been researched into yet is going to be called and what logo it'll have (or as is often the case for Amiga user "how are we going to shove a boing ball in there"). We really need to focus on the important things. Several people have pointed out the important stuff that needs to be sorted first, and suggested how to go about it. The name is just a name, it's really unimportant right now. Organisation and research, that's what needs to be done first (in that order). So could we please drop this superficial fluff for the moment and concentrate at the job in hand, I think that this stuff will fall into place naturally further down the line anyway. I fear that a couple of days in we're heading the way of Amozilla :-o -- Thanks, Andy Hall
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Hall" <uncharted@ntlworld.com> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:35 AM Subject: This seems to be going no-where (was Re: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Name)
Hello All,
On 9/1/05 1:15 am, "David Doyle" <david@amigaworld.net> wrote:
What I find ridiculous is that we still haven't even began to form any kind of organisational structure, and yet the main topic of discussion is what the product that hasn't even been researched into yet is going to be called and what logo it'll have (or as is often the case for Amiga user "how are we going to shove a boing ball in there").
We really need to focus on the important things. Several people have pointed out the important stuff that needs to be sorted first, and suggested how to go about it. The name is just a name, it's really unimportant right now. Organisation and research, that's what needs to be done first (in that order). So could we please drop this superficial fluff for the moment and concentrate at the job in hand, I think that this stuff will fall into place naturally further down the line anyway.
I fear that a couple of days in we're heading the way of Amozilla :-o
I agree with your opinion here. These are all issues that do need to be discussed, no two ways about that, however, since these are issues that need a final word/say to have them resolved, that won't happen until we do have an organizational structure in place. So we can send messages back and forth like this, but it's all we're going to achieve until somebody can "in a politically correct fashion" tell us to "shut the hell up and this is what it's gonna be so to speak ;-). So, who volunteered so we can vote for our fearless leader(s) ? hehe
Hello stephane On 09/01/2005, you wrote: <snip>
I agree with your opinion here. These are all issues that do need to be discussed, no two ways about that, however, since these are issues that need a final word/say to have them resolved, that won't happen until we do have an organizational structure in place. So we can send messages back and forth like this, but it's all we're going to achieve until somebody can "in a politically correct fashion" tell us to "shut the hell up and this is what it's gonna be so to speak ;-).
So, who volunteered so we can vote for our fearless leader(s) ? hehe
I'm still taking names for the voting for monday, wich will be opened at midnight CET, unless people object to this approuch. Note that the voting is to appoint one person only, that person will then have to gather a team arround him & get the ball rolling (and no, it's not a boingball i mean here ;) Sofar the list i've assembled is: Amon_Re Chris Fraser Rincewynd TonyW T_Power Mark Others wanting on it, or those wanting out of that list should speak up now. Also, THIS IS NOT A POPULARITY TEST, the one elected will have a hard job at hand, a big responsibility, WILL BE HATED BY THE CODERS FOR NAGGING and if it fails will be held responsible, only speak up if you think you can pull it off. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi Christophe, On 9/01/2005, you wrote:
Sofar the list i've assembled is: Amon_Re Chris Fraser Rincewynd TonyW T_Power Mark
Others wanting on it, or those wanting out of that list should speak up now.
Sorry, but I can not do a good job as a leader at the moment. I will be away on holiday for the whole of February, just when the leader is most wanted. However, I'll be glad to help later. cheers
Hello Tony On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi Christophe,
On 9/01/2005, you wrote:
Sofar the list i've assembled is: Amon_Re Chris Fraser Rincewynd TonyW T_Power Mark
Others wanting on it, or those wanting out of that list should speak up now.
Sorry, but I can not do a good job as a leader at the moment. I will be away on holiday for the whole of February, just when the leader is most wanted.
However, I'll be glad to help later.
OK, no problem Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi, stephane richard wrote:
I agree with your opinion here.
Me too, but remember that email allows multiple discussions in parallel... The problem is that the imporant things are not discussed enough. For example, what about project management... ? I think this is the most important issue to clear up right now. Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello Thomas On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
stephane richard wrote:
I agree with your opinion here.
Me too, but remember that email allows multiple discussions in parallel... The problem is that the imporant things are not discussed enough.
For example, what about project management... ? I think this is the most important issue to clear up right now.
I have to agree, see my mail about the voting tomorrow. If anyone objects, now is the time to speak. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:47:21 -0500, stephane richard <srichard@adaworld.com> wrote:
I agree with your opinion here. These are all issues that do need to be discussed, no two ways about that, however, since these are issues that need a final word/say to have them resolved, that won't happen until we do have an organizational structure in place. So we can send messages back and forth like this, but it's all we're going to achieve until somebody can "in a politically correct fashion" tell us to "shut the hell up and this is what it's gonna be so to speak ;-).
I think we are already there. I like the council idea and the workgroups as I stated earlier. We need to think about it from the top down, first I think. Once we've contacted OO.org about the port and know specifics from their end. It can be compared with what we have. Once we have that big picture we'll be in a better position to move forward.
So, who volunteered so we can vote for our fearless leader(s) ? hehe
Is that your hat in the ring? I'll toss mine in, for what it's worth. I'm a also a big fan of choice, along with Plan B.
I've never managed any projects other than my own (some are commercialized however so I can't say I couldn't do a good job ;-) anyone that can break down a project this big into workable steps is qualified in my book ;-). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Fraser" <argo@urswerks.homeip.net> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: Re: This seems to be going no-where (was Re: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Name)
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 07:47:21 -0500, stephane richard <srichard@adaworld.com> wrote:
I agree with your opinion here. These are all issues that do need to be discussed, no two ways about that, however, since these are issues that need a final word/say to have them resolved, that won't happen until we do have an organizational structure in place. So we can send messages back and forth like this, but it's all we're going to achieve until somebody can "in a politically correct fashion" tell us to "shut the hell up and this is what it's gonna be so to speak ;-).
I think we are already there. I like the council idea and the workgroups as I stated earlier. We need to think about it from the top down, first I think. Once we've contacted OO.org about the port and know specifics from their end. It can be compared with what we have. Once we have that big picture we'll be in a better position to move forward.
So, who volunteered so we can vote for our fearless leader(s) ? hehe
Is that your hat in the ring? I'll toss mine in, for what it's worth. I'm a also a big fan of choice, along with Plan B.
_______________________________________________ Openoffice-os4 mailing list Openoffice-os4@samfundet.no https://lists.samfundet.no/mailman/listinfo/openoffice-os4
Hello stephane On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
I've never managed any projects other than my own (some are commercialized however so I can't say I couldn't do a good job ;-) anyone that can break down a project this big into workable steps is qualified in my book ;-).
So i take it that you don't want on the list? Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
not for the head honchoe no :-)...... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 3:00 PM Subject: Re: This seems to be going no-where (was Re: [OO.org-OS4] Re: Name)
Hello stephane
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
I've never managed any projects other than my own (some are commercialized however so I can't say I couldn't do a good job ;-) anyone that can break down a project this big into workable steps is qualified in my book ;-).
So i take it that you don't want on the list?
Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
_______________________________________________ Openoffice-os4 mailing list Openoffice-os4@samfundet.no https://lists.samfundet.no/mailman/listinfo/openoffice-os4
Hello Andy On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello All,
On 9/1/05 1:15 am, "David Doyle" <david@amigaworld.net> wrote:
I agree we shouldn't use OpenOffice.org because not only is it the product name (which is fine), but it is also the domain name for the product. Imagine for example we have the domain name AmiOpenOffice.org or AmigaOpenOffice.org or whatever and the logo on this site is OpenOffice.org, this would look ridiculous and confusing.
What I find ridiculous is that we still haven't even began to form any kind of organisational structure, and yet the main topic of discussion is what the product that hasn't even been researched into yet is going to be called and what logo it'll have (or as is often the case for Amiga user "how are we going to shove a boing ball in there").
We really need to focus on the important things. Several people have pointed out the important stuff that needs to be sorted first, and suggested how to go about it. The name is just a name, it's really unimportant right now. Organisation and research, that's what needs to be done first (in that order). So could we please drop this superficial fluff for the moment and concentrate at the job in hand, I think that this stuff will fall into place naturally further down the line anyway.
I fear that a couple of days in we're heading the way of Amozilla :-o
Agreed. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi gang at Cheers! :-) This one's very long, but I hope it's well worth the read. I'm feeling a bit "Swiss" today (I guess maybe you have to have read that Mars trilogy to get the full implication of that one ;-) , but let's just call it a non-nonsense get-the-job-done sort of mood).
Hello Andy
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello All,
On 9/1/05 1:15 am, "David Doyle" <david@amigaworld.net> wrote:
I agree we shouldn't use OpenOffice.org because not only is it the product name (which is fine), but it is also the domain name for the product. Imagine for example we have the domain name AmiOpenOffice.org or AmigaOpenOffice.org or whatever and the logo on this site is OpenOffice.org, this would look ridiculous and confusing.
What I find ridiculous is that we still haven't even began to form any kind of organisational structure, and yet the main topic of discussion is what the product that hasn't even been researched into yet is going to be called and what logo it'll have (or as is often the case for Amiga user "how are we going to shove a boing ball in there").
We really need to focus on the important things. Several people have pointed out the important stuff that needs to be sorted first, and suggested how to go about it. The name is just a name, it's really unimportant right now. Organisation and research, that's what needs to be done first (in that order). So could we please drop this superficial fluff for the moment and concentrate at the job in hand, I think that this stuff will fall into place naturally further down the line anyway.
I fear that a couple of days in we're heading the way of Amozilla :-o
Agreed.
I'm going to abuse my administrative powers a bit here and say that until we have set up the organizational structure, no other discussions are allowed except in threads marked "OT: Name" Now, about that IRC conference thingie. I suggest we plan at least two or three ahead, or we set up a regular meeting schedule. The latter is possibly the best way to do it, because then everyone knows there'll be people there from x to y in the morning and z to v in the afternoon. Outside these "business hours" pelple can discuss what they want, but when we have a prpr session, everything MUST be ON-TOPIC. ALL OFF-TOPIC discussions should take place in a social chatroom. This to make life easier for the poor bastard in charge of collecting the logs and extracting all the bits that are relevant (about that... I think this should be an official secretary/moderator position, and I am considering applying for it. Even though it is an important position, at least it's easily replaceable, so I shouldn't loose any sleep over it). All timestamps should be specified using World Clock, like this: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1&day=9&year=2005... Say we were to have an IRC session at 8PM UTC this evening, then everyone would know from the above link what this translates to in their local timezone. About the contacting we need to do with upstream: We now have a couple of candidates for leadership, let's have a vote (give us a deadline of say 24 hours to vote). The person who gets the head honcho position assembles the comittee (unless I misunderstood this) and contacts OO.org about the port. I'm on webmail, so don't have my 5 point list handy, but I think the idea was that after we have appointed head honcho, we agree on a few other key positions and start working. I would also like to take the time to suggest that someone who has done at least one port already writes down a few lines of typical obstacles in getting off the ground. We have a bunch of libraries and smaller tools that needs porting, and I'm thinking about things like "./configure" and so on. How do you do it on OS4? On OS3.9 I had pdksh... ;-) Once we start figuring out all the dependencies we should also think about searching for more people. If there are some who have no interest in getting OO.org ported, maybe there are more people like Claus Desler who have an interest in one or more libraries/tools we also need. If they can help with that specific part, then go their separate ways, fine. They'll get credit for that, and the Amiga scene will be a better place. I'm even desperate enough to say that even MorphOS/AROS developers are welcome to join if they wanna contribute to porting a library both they and we need. Many of the libraries involved would be beneficial on OS3.9 and downwards as well. PS: I almost suggested "Amiga Porting Effort: OpenOffice.org", because it makes such a nice acronym :-P ("ooh ooh" is pretty close to "ook ook" *hum*) PPS: apeoo.org is available as well :-D -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
Hello olegil@samfundet.no On 09/01/2005, you wrote: <snip>
I'm going to abuse my administrative powers a bit here and say that until we have set up the organizational structure, no other discussions are allowed except in threads marked "OT: Name"
Erm, wouldn't it be best we get organised asap? So i'd say screw the name for now
Now, about that IRC conference thingie. I suggest we plan at least two or three ahead, or we set up a regular meeting schedule. The latter is possibly the best way to do it, because then everyone knows there'll be people there from x to y in the morning and z to v in the afternoon. Outside these "business hours" pelple can discuss what they want, but when we have a prpr session, everything MUST be ON-TOPIC. ALL OFF-TOPIC discussions should take place in a social chatroom. This to make life easier for the poor bastard in charge of collecting the logs and extracting all the bits that are relevant (about that... I think this should be an official secretary/moderator position, and I am considering applying for it. Even though it is an important position, at least it's easily replaceable, so I shouldn't loose any sleep over it). All timestamps should be specified using World Clock, like this:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1&day=9&year=2005...
Say we were to have an IRC session at 8PM UTC this evening, then everyone would know from the above link what this translates to in their local timezone.
Sounds good to me, but do take in account that just about all of us have day jobs, so that makes it almost a weekend only activity
About the contacting we need to do with upstream: We now have a couple of candidates for leadership, let's have a vote (give us a deadline of say 24 hours to vote). The person who gets the head honcho position assembles the comittee (unless I misunderstood this) and contacts OO.org about the port. I'm on webmail, so don't have my 5 point list handy, but I think the idea was that after we have appointed head honcho, we agree on a few other key positions and start working. I would also like to take the time to suggest that someone who has done at least one port already writes down a few lines of typical obstacles in getting off the ground. We have a bunch of libraries and smaller tools that needs porting, and I'm thinking about things like "./configure" and so on. How do you do it on OS4? On OS3.9 I had pdksh... ;-) Once we start figuring out all the dependencies we should also think about searching for more people. If there are some who have no interest in getting OO.org ported, maybe there are more people like Claus Desler who have an interest in one or more libraries/tools we also need. If they can help with that specific part, then go their separate ways, fine. They'll get credit for that, and the Amiga scene will be a better place. I'm even desperate enough to say that even MorphOS/AROS developers are welcome to join if they wanna contribute to porting a library both they and we need. Many of the libraries involved would be beneficial on OS3.9 and downwards as well.
It's impossible to arbitarely exclude coders because of their AROS or MOS backgrounds, sure, the main focus we have is AOS, doesn't mean that we shouldn't allow them to help. Being desperate doesn't apply here, it's common sense, MOS/AROS coders might not be able to write AOS4 specific code, but they could write it portable enough to be easilly transferred.
PS: I almost suggested "Amiga Porting Effort: OpenOffice.org", because it makes such a nice acronym :-P ("ooh ooh" is pretty close to "ook ook" *hum*) PPS: apeoo.org is available as well :-D
DaveyD already has a domain. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello olegil@samfundet.no
Konban wa, Ochan-san (I make references to the japanese language now and then, you'll just have to get used to it. Oh and btw, on the window from the lab looking into my office I have started to hang up "Kanji of the day" printouts. I'm very likely going to do the same here, link to a Kanji, with examples and explanations in my sig every day. Be warned :-) . Of course, it'll look harmless enough, since it's just going to be a link in a signature, but it's like a mental virus. Once you know a couple of Kanji, you'll want to learn more :-P ).
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Say we were to have an IRC session at 8PM UTC this evening, then everyone would know from the above link what this translates to in their local timezone.
Sounds good to me, but do take in account that just about all of us have day jobs, so that makes it almost a weekend only activity
You don't know that until you've asked. I have time, because I don't have kids and am no good with women ;-) If everyone is going to say "I can only work on this 2 hours each third weekend", then we might as well just shut down the list and go our separate ways right now. This isn't nbtscan we're talking about, it's OpenOffice.org. 1.5GB of source code (once uncompressed). It's also much better to find out NOW that we only have capacity for 4-5 one-hour IRC sessions each weekend rather than 10-14 half-hour sessions spread throughout the week. At least then we know what we can expect to accomplish in a session, and how we should go about it. Since you've already organised the head honcho vote, I think airing some ideas for how the team should work is good, because then the management has a place to start when they assemble. We don't need to decide on anything right now (it's like with SVN. I only suggested SVN because I have the server, the space and the bandwidth. I also think it's very good and that Amiga needs it. Some people just couldn't take that as a friendly suggestion). Just because it is mentioned doesn't mean it has to be voted over the same day. I think thats THE most important thing I want to say about IRC sessions as well. I suggested what I did because then we have some time to go over what NEEDS to be voted over, or otherwise set in stone, at the start of the session, then we have time for other on-topic ideas, and even possibly some time for off-topic ideas. If done right, this could be a fun experience for everyone involved. Except the poor sod who gets the blame when we fail, of course. The last IRC session will be dedicated to blame-storming, which is almost like brain-storming, except the only goal is to find someone to blame it on (and a good excuse ;-) ). This is the most important session to attend, as you really need to use those finely honed diplomatic skills not to end up with the blame ;-)
PS: I almost suggested "Amiga Porting Effort: OpenOffice.org", because it makes such a nice acronym :-P ("ooh ooh" is pretty close to "ook ook" *hum*) PPS: apeoo.org is available as well :-D
DaveyD already has a domain.
I sincerely wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. I'm truly shocked to see that some people don't have even THAT much sense of humour ;-) -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
Hello olegil@samfundet.no On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello olegil@samfundet.no
Konban wa, Ochan-san (I make references to the japanese language now and then, you'll just have to get used to it. Oh and btw, on the window from the lab looking into my office I have started to hang up "Kanji of the day" printouts. I'm very likely going to do the same here, link to a Kanji, with examples and explanations in my sig every day. Be warned :-) . Of course, it'll look harmless enough, since it's just going to be a link in a signature, but it's like a mental virus. Once you know a couple of Kanji, you'll want to learn more :-P ).
Ah sokka sokka *grin*
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Say we were to have an IRC session at 8PM UTC this evening, then everyone would know from the above link what this translates to in their local timezone.
Sounds good to me, but do take in account that just about all of us have day jobs, so that makes it almost a weekend only activity
You don't know that until you've asked. I have time, because I don't have kids and am no good with women ;-)
That sounds strangely familiar :D
If everyone is going to say "I can only work on this 2 hours each third weekend", then we might as well just shut down the list and go our separate ways right now. This isn't nbtscan we're talking about, it's OpenOffice.org. 1.5GB of source code (once uncompressed).
You don't have to convince me about that, but my point was more that, for instance, having an IRC session at 3:00 at night on a tuesday isn't a good idea :)
It's also much better to find out NOW that we only have capacity for 4-5 one-hour IRC sessions each weekend rather than 10-14 half-hour sessions spread throughout the week. At least then we know what we can expect to accomplish in a session, and how we should go about it. Since you've already organised the head honcho vote, I think airing some ideas for how the team should work is good, because then the management has a place to start when they assemble.
Agreed
We don't need to decide on anything right now (it's like with SVN. I only suggested SVN because I have the server, the space and the bandwidth. I also think it's very good and that Amiga needs it. Some people just couldn't take that as a friendly suggestion). Just because it is mentioned doesn't mean it has to be voted over the same day. I think thats THE most important thing I want to say about IRC sessions as well. I suggested what I did because then we have some time to go over what NEEDS to be voted over, or otherwise set in stone, at the start of the session, then we have time for other on-topic ideas, and even possibly some time for off-topic ideas. If done right, this could be a fun experience for everyone involved.
I agree on this aswell, i'm in favour of IRC sessions, but they need to be planned well enough and in a way alot of us can participate.
Except the poor sod who gets the blame when we fail, of course. The last IRC session will be dedicated to blame-storming, which is almost like brain-storming, except the only goal is to find someone to blame it on (and a good excuse ;-) ). This is the most important session to attend, as you really need to use those finely honed diplomatic skills not to end up with the blame ;-)
This is usually the manager :D
PS: I almost suggested "Amiga Porting Effort: OpenOffice.org", because it makes such a nice acronym :-P ("ooh ooh" is pretty close to "ook ook" *hum*) PPS: apeoo.org is available as well :-D
DaveyD already has a domain.
I sincerely wasn't expecting anyone to take that seriously. I'm truly shocked to see that some people don't have even THAT much sense of humour ;-)
Humour? what's that? :D Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello olegil@samfundet.no
If everyone is going to say "I can only work on this 2 hours each third weekend", then we might as well just shut down the list and go our separate ways right now. This isn't nbtscan we're talking about, it's OpenOffice.org. 1.5GB of source code (once uncompressed).
You don't have to convince me about that, but my point was more that, for instance, having an IRC session at 3:00 at night on a tuesday isn't a good idea :)
You keep forgetting about three things: 1: When we're 60 people (which we are, give or take a bit), EVERYONE doesn't have to be in EVERY session. 2: Time zones. As I mentioned, they can be a bit problematic, and my suggested solution was to set up small sessions 14 times a week and have everyone manage to attend half, rather than having three sessions every weekend and have half of us attend all of them. "Attend" can mean anything from being op and/or secretary to just browsing the backlog once every 5 minutes to see if there's anything worthwhile to contribute to. 3: If it's important enough, you'll MAKE time ;-) It's still just a suggestion, though. And since I'm in my brainstorming phase I would really like you to stop interrupting :-PMuch better for the management team to have an extra idea which is thrown away than for them to not have any ideas at all. Of course, if we're suddenly talking about 2 million extra ideas... ;-) Timeline as I see it is: Next 36 hours: we appoint head honcho. He immediately begins assembling ideas and a team, and also contacts OpenOffice.org to formally let them know we're here. within two days: his team is ready. Those of us who have NOT been contacted, assume we're not going to get any special functions, and begin wading through code. Hopefully by now we've received reply from OO.org as to where we should begin (which codebase, which specific revision in CVS that compiles on Linux so we can begin looking into porting etc). We begin distributing tasks (dotProject actulaly seemed quite nice for this bit). next weekend: We have agreed on some basic rules of engagement and some major tasks to be done for the next few weeks/months, and start looking for more people to join in our various sbu-project teams. Opinions may wary, but hopefully the goals are similar :-) I sent a list of 5 things to be done the othr day, maybe we should expand on those a bit as we begin to understand what we've gotten ourselves into the next few days. I have already offered to host mailing list, SVN server and write a PHP based session-planner. Once the management team is functional they will have to make a decision whether to take me up on some of those or not. Until then I don't think you can decide for us ;-) I also wish the management team seriously consider some of my thoughts regarding how we can best use IRC sessions. This was hopefully the last tirade from me for a while. Am cleaning the apartment and eating dinner the next few hours, then we shall see what we shall see. I was gonna do some work today as well, but fuck that ;-) -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
Hi, On 9/1/05 4:35 pm, "olegil@samfundet.no" <olegil@samfundet.no> wrote:
Timeline as I see it is:
Next 36 hours: we appoint head honcho. He immediately begins assembling ideas and a team, and also contacts OpenOffice.org to formally let them know we're here.
I might off missed this, but how are we going to do that? Vote, etc? Has anyone come forward with an offer to take the job that isn't reluctant? ;-)
within two days: <SNIP>
I agree with all of that. I'm not a yes man honest! :-)
Opinions may wary, but hopefully the goals are similar :-)
I sent a list of 5 things to be done the othr day, maybe we should expand on those a bit as we begin to understand what we've gotten ourselves into the next few days.
Just a reminder of those (to save everyone digging through the archives) :-
My main points from the forum discussions are:
1: Decide on a manager. 2: Manager goes on to discuss porting with sander.vesik@ireland.sun.com (correct way to start, according to porting.openoffice.org) 3: We decide how to host various things like mail, http, versioning control system, and who is responsible for what. 4: Those of us responsible for something (from step 3) starts putting together the resources needed. 5: The rest of us start looking at what needs to be done to the codebase.
Part of what I was going about was that important stuff like this was being burried under tons of posts arguing about the name and logo.
I was gonna do some work today as well, but fuck that ;-)
Amen brother :-) -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Andy On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi,
On 9/1/05 4:35 pm, "olegil@samfundet.no" <olegil@samfundet.no> wrote:
Timeline as I see it is:
Next 36 hours: we appoint head honcho. He immediately begins assembling ideas and a team, and also contacts OpenOffice.org to formally let them know we're here.
I might off missed this, but how are we going to do that? Vote, etc? Has anyone come forward with an offer to take the job that isn't reluctant? ;-)
I don't know if any on the list isn't reluctant, but this is it: Sofar the list i've assembled is: Amon_Re Chris Fraser Rincewynd TonyW T_Power Mark Modifications should be given to me ASAP
within two days:
I agree with all of that. I'm not a yes man honest! :-)
You will be... you will be... :P
Opinions may wary, but hopefully the goals are similar :-)
I sent a list of 5 things to be done the othr day, maybe we should expand on those a bit as we begin to understand what we've gotten ourselves into the next few days.
Just a reminder of those (to save everyone digging through the archives) :-
My main points from the forum discussions are:
1: Decide on a manager. 2: Manager goes on to discuss porting with sander.vesik@ireland.sun.com (correct way to start, according to porting.openoffice.org) 3: We decide how to host various things like mail, http, versioning control system, and who is responsible for what. 4: Those of us responsible for something (from step 3) starts putting together the resources needed. 5: The rest of us start looking at what needs to be done to the codebase.
Part of what I was going about was that important stuff like this was being burried under tons of posts arguing about the name and logo.
Shut up about the name & logo already /P Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello olegil@samfundet.no On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello olegil@samfundet.no
If everyone is going to say "I can only work on this 2 hours each third weekend", then we might as well just shut down the list and go our separate ways right now. This isn't nbtscan we're talking about, it's OpenOffice.org. 1.5GB of source code (once uncompressed).
You don't have to convince me about that, but my point was more that, for instance, having an IRC session at 3:00 at night on a tuesday isn't a good idea :)
You keep forgetting about three things: 1: When we're 60 people (which we are, give or take a bit), EVERYONE doesn't have to be in EVERY session.
True ;)
2: Time zones. As I mentioned, they can be a bit problematic, and my suggested solution was to set up small sessions 14 times a week and have everyone manage to attend half, rather than having three sessions every weekend and have half of us attend all of them. "Attend" can mean anything from being op and/or secretary to just browsing the backlog once every 5 minutes to see if there's anything worthwhile to contribute to. 3: If it's important enough, you'll MAKE time ;-)
I see, good suggestion
It's still just a suggestion, though. And since I'm in my brainstorming phase I would really like you to stop interrupting :-PMuch better for the management team to have an extra idea which is thrown away than for them to not have any ideas at all. Of course, if we're suddenly talking about 2 million extra ideas... ;-) Timeline as I see it is:
Next 36 hours: we appoint head honcho. He immediately begins assembling ideas and a team, and also contacts OpenOffice.org to formally let them know we're here. within two days: his team is ready. Those of us who have NOT been contacted, assume we're not going to get any special functions, and begin wading through code. Hopefully by now we've received reply from OO.org as to where we should begin (which codebase, which specific revision in CVS that compiles on Linux so we can begin looking into porting etc). We begin distributing tasks (dotProject actulaly seemed quite nice for this bit). next weekend: We have agreed on some basic rules of engagement and some major tasks to be done for the next few weeks/months, and start looking for more people to join in our various sbu-project teams.
Sounds good enough to me
Opinions may wary, but hopefully the goals are similar :-)
I sent a list of 5 things to be done the othr day, maybe we should expand on those a bit as we begin to understand what we've gotten ourselves into the next few days. I have already offered to host mailing list, SVN server and write a PHP based session-planner. Once the management team is functional they will have to make a decision whether to take me up on some of those or not. Until then I don't think you can decide for us ;-) I also wish the management team seriously consider some of my thoughts regarding how we can best use IRC sessions. This was hopefully the last tirade from me for a while. Am cleaning the apartment and eating dinner the next few hours, then we shall see what we shall see. I was gonna do some work today as well, but fuck that ;-)
This is more important then work! :P Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
olegil@samfundet.no writes: snip lots of Project management stuff> I agree with most of what Olegil said there, very good grasp of both PM and reality in my opinion, with one small proviso, rather than jumping in and writing a PHP/Web based Project management system, perhaps the first task of the head honcho (one of many I assure you) is to get someone to evaluate existing systems (much easier to install) first before jumping into writing our own. As a small point (maybe not so small) in my favour as head honcho (perhaps ;-) ) Whilst I currently work for The Open University, I have also handed my notice in and will be leaving in 2 months time (I dont plan on doing a whole lot of work here in that time without the persuasion of a VERY big stick - I hate 3 month contracts), post that I will be contracting out for 2 days per week (at more than my original salary so no worries there) so will initially have plenty of time to spend on the project management when its really needed. On top of this to expand on my previous statement, I have had 4 years Managing staff and projects here at the university (including formal training in Project Management techniques), as well as Server support (Solaris, Linux, Windows), PHP scripting and Mysql. Mark
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:40:48 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello olegil@samfundet.no On 09/01/2005, you wrote: <snip>
I'm going to abuse my administrative powers a bit here and say that until we have set up the organizational structure, no other discussions are allowed except in threads marked "OT: Name" Erm, wouldn't it be best we get organised asap? So i'd say screw the name for now
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere. There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project.
Hello Chris On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 14:40:48 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello olegil@samfundet.no On 09/01/2005, you wrote: <snip>
I'm going to abuse my administrative powers a bit here and say that until we have set up the organizational structure, no other discussions are allowed except in threads marked "OT: Name" Erm, wouldn't it be best we get organised asap? So i'd say screw the name for now
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I've had someone else mention this, Olegil, could you check the mailinglist?
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project.
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:48:17 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I've had someone else mention this, Olegil, could you check the mailinglist?
I seem to be getting them out of order. I'm reading some responces quite a few emails before the original post.
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:48:17 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I've had someone else mention this, Olegil, could you check the mailinglist?
I seem to be getting them out of order. I'm reading some responces quite a few emails before the original post.
Amon_Re has at least a handful of minutes of clock skew. Nothing else has bothered me so far. The server doesn't change the timestamps on the emails, so if you send an email marked 1971, it'll show up as 1971 in the online archive and in your inbox. I know Thomas sent off an email from 2010 or something, and someone else sent from 1971 to the a1g3dev that just never stopped bugging me. If you sort by time the emails sent from the future are always going to be on top :-( I use mozilla and sort by receiving order, this works great. -- We'll double-cross that bridge when we get there.
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hello Chris
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I've had someone else mention this, Olegil, could you check the mailinglist?
Well, if people are getting their own messages back when they post, they are getting ALL messages. Unless they have a filter in THEIR end. Mailman isn't rocket science :-P I've received 335 messages, including all the (un)subscription notifications sent to me personally. There IS also the online archive :-)
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project.
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-( -- We'll double-cross that bridge when we get there.
Hi, Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
What about Rose ? She was offering project lead as well ? Rose, do you hear me ;) ? Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 10:42:58 +0100, Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> wrote:
Hi,
Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
What about Rose ? She was offering project lead as well ?
Rose, do you hear me ;) ?
Regards,
anarchic_teapot Re: [Poll] Poll: OpenOffice: Are you interested in joining a porting effort Posted on 5-Jan-2005 16:28:37 [ #85 ] @EntilZha Quote: EntilZha wrote: "I'm not a manager... I'd rather contribute code" I'm a manager, but I've never managed a programming project in my life (mind you, that never stopped the people I used to work with ). If you get sufficiently desperate... She's not even on the mailing list. So, I doubt she knows what the state of things are.
Hi, Chris Fraser wrote:
She's not even on the mailing list. So, I doubt she knows what the state of things are.
aos4 at amont-info.com <https://lists.samfundet.no/mailman/options/openoffice-os4/aos4--at--amont-info.com> Isn't that Rose's mail ? Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Thomas Frieden wrote:
Hi,
Chris Fraser wrote:
She's not even on the mailing list. So, I doubt she knows what the state of things are.
aos4 at amont-info.com <https://lists.samfundet.no/mailman/options/openoffice-os4/aos4--at--amont-info.com>
Isn't that Rose's mail ?
yes it is
Regards,
-- Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Le 10/01/2005, Thomas Frieden a écrit :
Hi,
Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
What about Rose ? She was offering project lead as well ?
Rose, do you hear me ;) ?
<tap, tap, tap> Is this thing working now? Yes, receiving you loud and clear now that I've finally got ADSL back after 6 weeks' deprivation (and I use the word advisedly). Certain - ahem - events at my salaried employ give me reason to believe I will shortly have some extra free time on my hands, so at least a couple of months' shouting at people for chattering on the list, blackmailing 'em into accepting some work and then shouting at them until it's done are all possible. Finding spare programmers might also be an option, since I can translate for them if necessary. However, I don't do IRC. Salutations -- Rose Humphrey Amont Informatique France
Rose Humphrey wrote:
Le 10/01/2005, Thomas Frieden a écrit :
Hi,
Ole-Egil Hvitmyren wrote:
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
What about Rose ? She was offering project lead as well ?
Rose, do you hear me ;) ?
<tap, tap, tap> Is this thing working now?
Yes, receiving you loud and clear now that I've finally got ADSL back after 6 weeks' deprivation (and I use the word advisedly). Certain - ahem - events at my salaried employ give me reason to believe I will shortly have some extra free time on my hands, so at least a couple of months' shouting at people for chattering on the list, blackmailing 'em into accepting some work and then shouting at them until it's done are all possible. Finding spare programmers might also be an option, since I can translate for them if necessary. However, I don't do IRC.
I'm sure we can come to some arrangement, especially if it means more programmers on board, however, I'm not sure there is an immediate need for too many coders, there is a lot of research to be done first i think (which we'll be discussing tommorrow on IRC, and will be able to provide you the results), which would probably be better being done by a smaller core group of coders, and the management team Mark
Op 12-jan-05 om 17:15 heeft Rose Humphrey het volgende geschreven:
However, I don't do IRC.
Fear of addiction kicking in? ;) Welcome on the list btw! ---- Amon_Re Ochal Christophe Webmaster for: http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be http://amigadev.amigaworld.net
Hello Ole-Egil On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hello Chris
The only discussions should be about getting organized and setting up a structure. I see we're going to have a vote. That's a good positive move. I'm wondering if I've missed some emails as the vote just seemed to pop out of nowhere.
I've had someone else mention this, Olegil, could you check the mailinglist?
Well, if people are getting their own messages back when they post, they are getting ALL messages. Unless they have a filter in THEIR end. Mailman isn't rocket science :-P
I've received 335 messages, including all the (un)subscription notifications sent to me personally.
There IS also the online archive :-)
I'm just passing the message ;)
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project.
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
That's why a good team arround the elected person is important ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hakuna Matata, Christophe Ochal!
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-( That's why a good team arround the elected person is important ;)
I definetly second the need for a team helping the manager. In my mind i already have some names to propose ;) -- Nibunnoichi ICQ: 19981296 http://www.furinkan.org http://www.takahashi.it
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:12:25 +0100, Ole-Egil Hvitmyren <olegil@samfundet.no> wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project. After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
Well, we do the best with what we have. We have alot of intellegent and knowledgeable people here. Some have experience with software development and porting projects. As long as the Project Lead listens to the suggestions and opinions of the project members, we shouldn't do too bad. The big thing is not to rush it. Obviously, this is going to be a learning experience for quite a few people. Which is a good thing as it give that experience back in to the Amiga Community to build on. Which, I hope, will lead to other projects. We also have to remember that this is not a port it and that's it. It's going to be an on going project that will need support and updating. The big part is the port. That's how I see it.
Hello Chris On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:12:25 +0100, Ole-Egil Hvitmyren
wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project. After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
Well, we do the best with what we have. We have alot of intellegent and knowledgeable people here. Some have experience with software development and porting projects. As long as the Project Lead listens to the suggestions and opinions of the project members, we shouldn't do too bad. The big thing is not to rush it. Obviously, this is going to be a learning experience for quite a few people. Which is a good thing as it give that experience back in to the Amiga Community to build on. Which, I hope, will lead to other projects. We also have to remember that this is not a port it and that's it. It's going to be an on going project that will need support and updating. The big part is the port. That's how I see it.
It's not only porting the application, as you said, a team will have to keep track of changes in the official branch, and port those changes back into out port, support channels will have to be set up for the AmigaOS version, articles written & translated, perhaps even file loaders for Amiga specific applications (i'm thinking of ex given importing Final Copy, Final Writer, Wordworth, Amigawriter etc etc). It's an inmense project, aslong as we know that, and aknowledge that, then i think we can do it. It's when people start underestimating things that things go bad. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hello Chris
On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 09:12:25 +0100, Ole-Egil Hvitmyren
wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
There seems to be a theme amongst the posts of some of the list members, i.e let's get organized. Unfortunaly, we haven't all gotten together and deceided to run the project.
After the vote we'll be able to move forward faster i hope
Unfortunately there's 3 "I have no experience" and 1 "I have no time" on the list. Not a good sign. :-(
Well, we do the best with what we have. We have alot of intellegent and knowledgeable people here. Some have experience with software development and porting projects. As long as the Project Lead listens to the suggestions and opinions of the project members, we shouldn't do too bad. The big thing is not to rush it. Obviously, this is going to be a learning experience for quite a few people. Which is a good thing as it give that experience back in to the Amiga Community to build on. Which, I hope, will lead to other projects. We also have to remember that this is not a port it and that's it. It's going to be an on going project that will need support and updating. The big part is the port. That's how I see it.
It's not only porting the application, as you said, a team will have to keep track of changes in the official branch, and port those changes back into out port,
I think there should be two cases: 1. We make our own CVS/SVN "fork" of OOo, make it work on OS4, update it to the newest CVS-version, and merge our changes into the official CVS-version. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes. 2. We get CVS access to the official CVS, and make it work on OS4. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes.
support channels will have to be set up for the AmigaOS version, articles written & translated, perhaps even file loaders for Amiga specific applications (i'm thinking of ex given importing Final Copy, Final Writer, Wordworth, Amigawriter etc etc).
It's an inmense project, aslong as we know that, and aknowledge that, then i think we can do it.
It's when people start underestimating things that things go bad.
Regards
-- Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Hello Henning On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
I think there should be two cases: 1. We make our own CVS/SVN "fork" of OOo, make it work on OS4, update it to the newest CVS-version, and merge our changes into the official CVS-version. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes. 2. We get CVS access to the official CVS, and make it work on OS4. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes.
This will become clear when we have a running dialogue with the OOo maintainers, it could be for instance, that we only get CVS access to the official CVS after an initial port. Right now all this is speculation, and will be cleared up over the course of time. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi Henning, On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
I think there should be two cases: 1. We make our own CVS/SVN "fork" of OOo, make it work on OS4, update it to the newest CVS-version, and merge our changes into the official CVS-version. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes. 2. We get CVS access to the official CVS, and make it work on OS4. After that we need to update the OS4 specific changes.
It has been my experience with Kaffe that almost every change to the "noarch" code breaks one or other platform-specific ports. The continual updates are, as we say in Sydney, "like painting the Harbour Bridge" - a never-ending task. cheers
Hi gang at Cheers! :-)
This one's very long, but I hope it's well worth the read. I'm feeling a bit "Swiss" today (I guess maybe you have to have read that Mars trilogy to get the full implication of that one ;-) , but let's just call it a non-nonsense get-the-job-done sort of mood).
Let's also add that it looks like it's also a non-whitespace kinda mood. Don't know if it's the webmail or just me that's acting up, so I'm gonna do a quick test now. No line One line Two lines End -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
Hi gang at Cheers! :-)
Hi, Olegil! :-P <snip>
This to make life easier for the poor bastard in charge of collecting the logs and extracting all the bits that are relevant (about that... I think this should be an official secretary/moderator position, and I am considering applying for it. Even though it is an important position, at least it's easily replaceable, so I shouldn't loose any sleep over it).
Another idea being that everyone gets to try this at least once, we decide before hand who is going to take care of what logs. Example (using the Frieden brothers as example names here, since I'm not very imaginative today):Thomas is responsible for day 1, session one. Topic is "dependencies". We know we need to make a list of all the dependencies of all the dependencies (I mean recursive :-) ), with a proper graph that ends in things we have. We also need to pin down some names to different parts of the graph. Once the discussion is over, Thomas takes the logs, the graph, the names, writes it up into a document that can be put on the web site. In this document there are three major parts: 1: What we have agreed upon. 2: What we have discussed, but haven't agreed upon yet. These should be voted over ASAP. They could come from the topic, the list of things we have discussed here, or things that just pop up while in the IRC session. 3: Topic, timestamp and "unfortunate log-compacting bastard" for next session. These COULD come from the IRC session, but they could also come from the mailing list. Flexibility within set limits is the key here. Hans-Jörg is that unfortunate soul for the next session, so he takes what Thomas wrote down, spends 5 minutes going over what we need to discuss according to that document and 5 miuntes preparing what he's gotten off the grape vine, and then the session is started. Of course, not ALL sessions are going to have a predefined topic, but ALL sessions must have someone compacting logs. I also think we should take a moment or two to discuss when we have time for sessions. And do we want to chalk down 14 of them every week? I think this is the only feasible way to make sure we get ANY useful discussion ;-). Trying to assemble enough people to make a decision without having a fixed schedule is a complete nightmare. A truly horrible experience. Please use worldclock. I am volunteering to look over the results and see if there are some clear candidates. 14 sessions per week, I suggest capping the length to something between 30 and 60 minutes per sessions (as I said, discussion can take place outside business hours, but any formal decisions should come from a pre-determined session). Example: I am up at a bit before 6am three days a week (I lift heavy things and put them down again for an hour, then I go to work). Another half hour earlier sure isn't gonna kill me. So that's http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1&day=10&year=200... plus 30 miuntes, the same on wednesdays and fridays. Then I'll need to find 11 more that works for me ;-) I am also fortunate enough to have a boss that thinks 10% of work time spent on private projects (as long as they are relevant to what I do at work, which this is ;-) ) is good. So I can also use an hour or two of work time each week to catch any good discussions I would otherwise miss. And my work hours are flexible, so I can stretch the morning or afternoon quite a bit. I then assemble an email with the 14 (or more, or less. Anything goes)worldclock urls (each with their own number of minutes I am available, and whether or not I'm available enough to take responsibility of the chatroom at that time, or whether I'm only lurking from work and might have to pop out for 10 minutes in the middle of a session because someone has a question IRL), and send it to some place where the data gets processed and suitable sessions are picked. Or Olegil could assemble a "small" PHP based script that people can use to input their available time and give us a nice picture with one row per person, one column per half-hour, red, green or yellow depending on how well this period suits the person. We could then update our personal info weekly and 5-6 days ahead the session is scheduled. Much more flexible, and actually doable since I have the basics running in a room-booking system already. I just need to make it use half-hours instead of hours, have it use three states (green/yellow/red) for availability instead of just two, and shift it from 04.00-28.00 down to 00.00-24.00 (we stop serving beer at 02.30, and quite often a person is told to start working at "25.00 friday", for instance tidying up after a band has been on stage or something. That way we know which day we're supposed to be there, noone ever comes 24 hours too late ;-) ) Am I starting to make sense here? I'm not ACTUALLY trying to create a bureucracy (where is aspell when you need it? :-P ), but SOME things must be agreed upon before-hand to make them work. :-) -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 12:35:33 +0000, Andy Hall <uncharted@ntlworld.com> wrote:
What I find ridiculous is that we still haven't even began to form any kind of organisational structure, and yet the main topic of discussion is what the product that hasn't even been researched into yet is going to be called and what logo it'll have (or as is often the case for Amiga user "how are we going to shove a boing ball in there"). We really need to focus on the important things. Several people have pointed out the important stuff that needs to be sorted first, and suggested how to go about it. The name is just a name, it's really unimportant right now. Organisation and research, that's what needs to be done first (in that order). So could we please drop this superficial fluff for the moment and concentrate at the job in hand, I think that this stuff will fall into place naturally further down the line anyway. I fear that a couple of days in we're heading the way of Amozilla :-o
Agreed, we have all the trappings of a good project just no substance yet. It's quickly getting to the point where we need that substance.
Hi ! Tony Wyatt schrieb:
As has been said, we can't use "Open Office" - it's Sun's copyrighted name. I think we shouldn't use "OpenOffice.org" - it is a domain name already, and does not show that we did any work on it at all. I don't like the "Ami" abbreviation as a prefix - it sounds too twee. What about "OpenOffice.Amiga", or "OpenOffice Amiga"?
OpenOffice.org in fact is the name. Just look at the splashscreen ;-) IMO we must keep the name to benefit from its popularity. Maybe OOo for AmogaOS or OOo AmigaOS Edition, but generally it must be OOo. regards Alexander Lohrmann -- "It can't rain all the time"
Hi !
Tony Wyatt schrieb:
As has been said, we can't use "Open Office" - it's Sun's copyrighted name. I think we shouldn't use "OpenOffice.org" - it is a domain name already, and does not show that we did any work on it at all. I don't like the "Ami" abbreviation as a prefix - it sounds too twee. What about "OpenOffice.Amiga", or "OpenOffice Amiga"?
OpenOffice.org in fact is the name. Just look at the splashscreen ;-) IMO we must keep the name to benefit from its popularity. Maybe OOo for AmogaOS or OOo AmigaOS Edition, but generally it must be OOo.
I aggree here totaly. Before we talk about the name, some official contact and permission has to be granted anyway. -- Jürgen Schober 7900 E. Princess Drv. #1273 Scottsdale, AZ, 85255, USA http://www.pointdesign.com juergen.schober@pointdesign.com cell: +1-602-373-7092
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 05:14:55 +0100 (CET), =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Schober?= <juergen.schober@pointdesign.at> wrote:
OpenOffice.org in fact is the name. Just look at the splashscreen ;-) IMO we must keep the name to benefit from its popularity. Maybe OOo for AmogaOS or OOo AmigaOS Edition, but generally it must be OOo.
I aggree here totaly. Before we talk about the name, some official contact and permission has to be granted anyway.
I was just going to write about that. Looking over the OpenOffice.org site on porting and new projects, it looks like we'd become part of the OpenOffice.org project and the port part of the product line. What would it be called, OpenOffice.org of course. Just like it is called on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Solaris, etc. Though the Amiga version might be listed at OpenOffice.org AmigaOS or OpenOffice.org AmigaOS4. Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source. So far from what I've seen of the discussion, it's been more of the take it, rename it, port it. Basically, take it and make it our own. It just seems like stealing and passing someone's work of as our own. We can still make it our own, but still have it be OpenOffice.org.
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting.
Well, someone has been asking... http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=14932 Hosted tools available http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/scdocs/hostedtools.html Starting a Project http://www.openoffice.org/nonav/scdocs/ProjectAdd.html Mac OS X Port http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/ LinuxPPC http://porting.openoffice.org/linuxppc/ppclinks.html
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 05:14:55 +0100 (CET), =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Schober?= <juergen.schober@pointdesign.at> wrote:
OpenOffice.org in fact is the name. Just look at the splashscreen ;-) IMO we must keep the name to benefit from its popularity. Maybe OOo for AmogaOS or OOo AmigaOS Edition, but generally it must be OOo.
I aggree here totaly. Before we talk about the name, some official contact and permission has to be granted anyway.
I was just going to write about that. Looking over the OpenOffice.org site on porting and new projects, it looks like we'd become part of the OpenOffice.org project and the port part of the product line. What would it be called, OpenOffice.org of course. Just like it is called on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Solaris, etc. Though the Amiga version might be listed at OpenOffice.org AmigaOS or OpenOffice.org AmigaOS4.
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
So far from what I've seen of the discussion, it's been more of the take it, rename it, port it. Basically, take it and make it our own. It just seems like stealing and passing someone's work of as our own. We can still make it our own, but still have it be OpenOffice.org.
Full agree from me. Markus
Hello Chris On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 05:14:55 +0100 (CET), =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Schober?= wrote:
OpenOffice.org in fact is the name. Just look at the splashscreen ;-) IMO we must keep the name to benefit from its popularity. Maybe OOo for AmogaOS or OOo AmigaOS Edition, but generally it must be OOo.
I aggree here totaly. Before we talk about the name, some official contact and permission has to be granted anyway.
I was just going to write about that. Looking over the OpenOffice.org site on porting and new projects, it looks like we'd become part of the OpenOffice.org project and the port part of the product line. What would it be called, OpenOffice.org of course. Just like it is called on Windows, Linux, BSD, Mac, Solaris, etc. Though the Amiga version might be listed at OpenOffice.org AmigaOS or OpenOffice.org AmigaOS4.
Agreed
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
So far from what I've seen of the discussion, it's been more of the take it, rename it, port it. Basically, take it and make it our own. It just seems like stealing and passing someone's work of as our own. We can still make it our own, but still have it be OpenOffice.org.
The program is OpenOffice.org, the team & project will be named appropriate, but the app is and remains OOo. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net
Hello David On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png
It looks fine to me, but right now we need to get organised, that is the priority me thinks. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi David On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png
Spot on IMHO ;-) Regards Mick -- <tsb>Mick Sutton <tsb>Chairman of SEAL <tsb>South Essex Amiga Link <tsb>http://www.seal-amiga.co.uk <tsb>Using AmigaOne-XE G4 & Amiga OS4
Hi David
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png
Spot on IMHO ;-)
VERY nice. Having that hosted on amigaopenoffice.org is gonna be JUST fine. -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 13:28:19 -0000, David Doyle <david@amigaworld.net> wrote:
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png
Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net
Splendid! Now for some organization to get the ball rolling.
Hi David, On 9/01/2005, you wrote:
Ive redesigned the logo for the name OpenOffice.org as this seems to be the general consensus http://amigaworld.net/tmp/amiopenofficelogo.png
Yes, I like that one a lot better. cheers
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
Someone should. I've been sitting here thinking about doing it myself, but I keep waiting for someone else to step forward. So, I'll lay down the gauntlet. If we haven't made any positive move on an organizational structure or temporary spokeman, I'll contact the OO.org organization about our port. Does anyone have any pertinent questions, concerns, or other issues they feel should be address in this opening contact.
So far from what I've seen of the discussion, it's been more of the take it, rename it, port it. Basically, take it and make it our own. It just seems like stealing and passing someone's work of as our own. We can still make it our own, but still have it be OpenOffice.org.
The program is OpenOffice.org, the team & project will be named appropriate, but the app is and remains OOo.
That fits in with what is on the OO.org site.
Hello Chris On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
Someone should. I've been sitting here thinking about doing it myself, but I keep waiting for someone else to step forward. So, I'll lay down the gauntlet. If we haven't made any positive move on an organizational structure or temporary spokeman, I'll contact the OO.org organization about our port. Does anyone have any pertinent questions, concerns, or other issues they feel should be address in this opening contact.
The only reason i haven't yet is because i'd prefer to wait untill the voting tomorrow, it would make a bad impression if multiple persons start mailing them with the same questions, it gives an uncoordinated impression of the project, plus Edward Dore already contacted them through their mailinglist. I'll repeat what i already said, wait with further communications untill *after* the vote, also, only one person should be mailing them. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 20:57:10 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
Someone should. I've been sitting here thinking about doing it myself, but I keep waiting for someone else to step forward. So, I'll lay down the gauntlet. If we haven't made any positive move on an organizational structure or temporary spokeman, I'll contact the OO.org organization about our port. Does anyone have any pertinent questions, concerns, or other issues they feel should be address in this opening contact.
The only reason i haven't yet is because i'd prefer to wait untill the voting tomorrow, it would make a bad impression if multiple persons start mailing them with the same questions, it gives an uncoordinated impression of the project, plus Edward Dore already contacted them through their mailinglist.
I'll repeat what i already said, wait with further communications untill *after* the vote, also, only one person should be mailing them.
Regards
Agreed. I am just reponding the list email as I read it. Half way though and what do I see, positive movement to organization. We're haveing a vote. So, no more snap decisions by random people. Cool. Now, to vote!
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
Someone should. I've been sitting here thinking about doing it myself, but I keep waiting for someone else to step forward. So, I'll lay down the gauntlet. If we haven't made any positive move on an organizational structure or temporary spokeman, I'll contact the OO.org organization about our port. Does anyone have any pertinent questions, concerns, or other issues they feel should be address in this opening contact.
Hey all. I've sent an inquiry along with 'the usual questions' that have been bouncing around the list, as well as Edwards. No response as of yet, although I emailed dev (also not knowing it was in fact a mailing list, like Ed ;-) ) I'd suggest getting a list of 'need to know' together, either before or after an acting PM, and then sending the same to the other specific contacts listed as being in charge of porting efforts: perhaps Michael, martin.hollmichel@germany.sun.com, listed at http://porting.openoffice.org/ Scott
Hello Scott On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello Chris
On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Lot of these questions would be answered if we would just decide on a spokesman, just for now, and contact OpenOffice.org as listed in the porting page and/or new projects page. They seem to have resources that may be available to use, possibly a basic project structure to follow, not to mention resources on porting. Also, we should be prepared for them to have certain requiements for the port. It is their code. Taking it, port it, and call it something other than OpenOffice.org just seems wrong and not to mention probably breaks some copyright law/IP laws even through it is open source.
I could contact them, my english is more then good enough, but i'll only do so if nobody objects.
Someone should. I've been sitting here thinking about doing it myself, but I keep waiting for someone else to step forward. So, I'll lay down the gauntlet. If we haven't made any positive move on an organizational structure or temporary spokeman, I'll contact the OO.org organization about our port. Does anyone have any pertinent questions, concerns, or other issues they feel should be address in this opening contact.
Hey all. I've sent an inquiry along with 'the usual questions' that have been bouncing around the list, as well as Edwards. No response as of yet, although I emailed dev (also not knowing it was in fact a mailing list, like Ed ;-) ) I'd suggest getting a list of 'need to know' together, either before or after an acting PM, and then sending the same to the other specific contacts listed as being in charge of porting efforts: perhaps Michael, martin.hollmichel@germany.sun.com, listed at http://porting.openoffice.org/
For the love of god, could everyone please *stop* with emailing the OOo team? There should only be one or two people contacting them, and they should be cc'ing eachother aswell. So please, *STOP* with the mails untill after the head honcho is elected & the poor sod can appoint people to it. Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Christophe Ochal wrote:
Hello Scott
On 10/01/2005, you wrote:
Chris Fraser wrote:
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 13:38:33 +0100, Christophe Ochal <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
[snipped re wanting to contact OO]
Hey all. I've sent an inquiry along with 'the usual questions' that have been bouncing around the list, as well as Edwards. No response as of yet, although I emailed dev (also not knowing it was in fact a mailing list, like Ed ;-) ) I'd suggest getting a list of 'need to know' together, either before or after an acting PM, and then sending the same to the other specific contacts listed as being in charge of porting efforts: perhaps Michael, martin.hollmichel@germany.sun.com, listed at http://porting.openoffice.org/
For the love of god, could everyone please *stop* with emailing the OOo team? There should only be one or two people contacting them, and they should be cc'ing eachother aswell.
So please, *STOP* with the mails untill after the head honcho is elected & the poor sod can appoint people to it.
Regards
Actually, that was the point of my mail, to say at least 2 people have already sent mail, which means likely 10 have....so no more ;-) Scott
Hello Tony On 09/01/2005, you wrote:
Hi all,
On 8/01/2005, Hans-Joerg wrote:
My vote goes towards "OpenOffice.org". I don't think that naming it otherwise makes any sense at all. OpenOffice.org is a brand name that will attract news media and give the Amiga a bit of addiitonal, much needed press coverage.
Name of Product:
As has been said, we can't use "Open Office" - it's Sun's copyrighted name. I think we shouldn't use "OpenOffice.org" - it is a domain name already, and does not show that we did any work on it at all. I don't like the "Ami" abbreviation as a prefix - it sounds too twee. What about "OpenOffice.Amiga", or "OpenOffice Amiga"?
It's a port of openoffice.org, so that name should stay i think.
Name of Project:
"OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4".
I was hoping for something short & snappy ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi Christophe, On 9/01/2005, you wrote:
"OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4".
I was hoping for something short & snappy ;)
Is the project a sub-project of OpenOffice.org, so we can assume that OOo is implied? In that case, maybe just "AmigaOS4" would suffice. cheers
On Sun, 09 Jan 2005 21:59:44 +1100, Tony Wyatt <wyattaw@optushome.com.au> wrote:
Is the project a sub-project of OpenOffice.org, so we can assume that OOo is implied? In that case, maybe just "AmigaOS4" would suffice.
When we've made an official inquire to OpenOffice.org about the port, we'll find out the answer. From my looking at the documentation on the site, that is my understanding.
Hi, Christophe Ochal wrote:
"OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4".
I was hoping for something short & snappy ;)
OOoAOS OOoOS4 :) Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hi,
Christophe Ochal wrote:
"OpenOffice for Amiga" is quite adequate to describe the project, unless you want to narrow it down to include "OS4".
I was hoping for something short & snappy ;)
OOoAOS OOoOS4
:)
You forgot the obvious AOOoOs4. Of course, that only works during a full moon :-P -- We'll jump off that bridge when we get there.
participants (22)
-
Alexander Lohrmann -
Andy Hall -
Bond Seran -
Chris Fraser -
Christophe Ochal -
David Doyle -
Hans-Joerg Frieden -
Henning Nielsen Lund -
Jürgen Schober -
Mark bond
-
Markus Weiss -
mason.home＠t-online.de -
Mick Sutton -
Nibunnoichi -
Ochal Christophe
-
Ole-Egil Hvitmyren -
olegil＠samfundet.no
-
Rose Humphrey -
Scott W -
stephane richard -
Thomas Frieden -
Tony Wyatt