Hello, I'm currently thinking of the Mission Statement, but i'm kinda low on idea's for formulating it, maybe you guys can do that, anyway, this is the gist of what it should say i think: "Amiga OpenOffice.Org is a project created by the Amiga community to port OpenOffice.Org to AmigaOS. Our main focus is to port OpenOffice.Org to the newest version of AmigaOS, AmigaOS4, but we welcome everyone who can contribute to it, wether he/she is an AmigaOS3.x user, Aros user or MorphOS user." Maybe appointing a PR guy would be usefull already :p Kind regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hello Christophe On 11/01/2005, you wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently thinking of the Mission Statement, but i'm kinda low on idea's for formulating it, maybe you guys can do that, anyway, this is the gist of what it should say i think:
BTW, it's on the wiki: http://amigaopenoffice.org/component/option,com_wikidoc/task,viewcontent/doc... Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Christophe Ochal wrote:
BTW, it's on the wiki: http://amigaopenoffice.org/component/option,com_wikidoc/task,viewcontent/doc...
I'd be interested to know how someone actualy got Mambo to work without CSS... :-) Regards, -- Hans-Joerg Frieden, Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz - I-amar prestar aen / han mathon ne nen han mathon ne chae / a han noston ned 'wilith
On 11/1/05 8:30 pm, "Hans-Joerg Frieden" <Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
BTW, it's on the wiki: http://amigaopenoffice.org/component/option,com_wikidoc/task,viewcontent/doc... d,2/Itemid,27/sid,2/cid,2/
I'd be interested to know how someone actualy got Mambo to work without CSS... :-)
Bloody hell where did that site come from? That DaveyD fellow is fecking fast! -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Hans-Joerg On 11/01/2005, you wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
BTW, it's on the wiki: http://amigaopenoffice.org/component/option,com_wikidoc/task,viewcontent/doc...
I'd be interested to know how someone actualy got Mambo to work without CSS... :-)
Ask our WebWizard ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Hi, On 11/1/05 8:05 pm, "Christophe Ochal" <ochal@kefren.be> wrote:
Hello,
I'm currently thinking of the Mission Statement, but I'm kinda low on idea's for formulating it, maybe you guys can do that, anyway, this is the gist of what it should say i think:
"Amiga OpenOffice.Org is a project created by the Amiga community to port OpenOffice.Org to AmigaOS. Our main focus is to port OpenOffice.Org to the newest version of AmigaOS, AmigaOS4, but we welcome everyone who can contribute to it, wether he/she is an AmigaOS3.x user, Aros user or MorphOS user."
I thought that this was on the item list for the IRC confrence. As it stands, it sounds a bit awkward (the second paragraph). I think we would be more successful fleshing it out in real-time (i.e. IRC) and then refining it afterwards. Not that I'm disagreeing you, our glorious dictator ;-) -- Thanks, Andy Hall
Hello Andy On 11/01/2005, you wrote:
I thought that this was on the item list for the IRC confrence. As it stands, it sounds a bit awkward (the second paragraph). I think we would be more successful fleshing it out in real-time (i.e. IRC) and then refining it afterwards.
Not as a seperate item, but with all the distraction about MOS & the fact that some are already nagging it would shut them up & keep our coders from getting distracted by flamewars ;)
Not that I'm disagreeing you, our glorious dictator ;-)
LOL ;) Actually, i think i'll have a PR manager aswell... ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Just looked a bit more at the archive of dev@porting.openoffice.org Mail - http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgId=508793 - from January 2003 *Hi, the first steps of an OOo port can be done without OOo Source code. 0. Check if Operating system provides some basics: - support of shared libraries *Check - /With help of the "dlopen/dlclose/dlsym" link library that Hans-Jörg told about do we have this/ *- a memory model that allows more than 64k segments - hardware with at least 32M real memory support *Check - /I do not have much memory, but it is still 256MB ;-)/* - Java support would help *Not yet, but he does also say that it would help, not that it is needed* - graphical user interface (may it would possible to port it to cui based system, but would it make sense ?). if the system does not support Win32 or X Window System API you might have to implement support for your system. *Check - /Will need some more work, as we do not have X11 or Win32, but it will be worth it to support our own UI/ *- support for processes, threads, signals, pipes etc. *Check - /With IXEmul and the pthread library made by the Friedens - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/pthread.lha/ * and a lot of others prerequistes I do not have in mind right now. I don't think that these are a big hurdle for a OS/2 port. 1. Check for a working C++ compiler and linker. - OOo code uses all current features of a C++ compiler: -exceptions, templates etc.. *Check *- GNU Compiler is recommended, 2.95 should work, better is 3.x. *Check - 3.4.3 IIRC * 2. Check for Standard Template Library (STL) for your system. recommended is STLport (www.stlport.org). If there is an existing port, check the eh_test test case in the stlport. if you got this test running, you can consider starting downloading OOo code. *Check - /Don't know about eh_test, but we have STLport - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/stlport.lha - and even boost - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/boost.lha/ * Martin* Looks like we can begin ;-) -- Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:
0. Check if Operating system provides some basics: - support of shared libraries *Check - /With help of the "dlopen/dlclose/dlsym" link library that Hans-Jörg told about do we have this/
Note that this has its limits, mainly because it is impossible to "share" the code (i.e. every opener gets its own local copy). For OOo, this shouldn't be an issue.
*- support for processes, threads, signals, pipes etc. *Check - /With IXEmul and the pthread library made by the Friedens - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/pthread.lha/
If at all, we should avoid using ixemul. It may be useful for the utilities needed to build, but for serious system programming, we should not rely on it. Unfortunately this doesn't say how much of signals are required; clib2 supports most of the basic signals, but not e.g. SIG_ALARM. This warrants more research.
1. Check for a working C++ compiler and linker. - OOo code uses all current features of a C++ compiler: -exceptions, templates etc.. *Check *- GNU Compiler is recommended, 2.95 should work, better is 3.x. *Check - 3.4.3 IIRC *
There is AFAIK an experimential, ixemul-based 3.x for OS 3.1. We do have the latest 3.4.3 for OS 4.
2. Check for Standard Template Library (STL) for your system. recommended is STLport (www.stlport.org). If there is an existing port, check the eh_test test case in the stlport. if you got this test running, you can consider starting downloading OOo code. *Check - /Don't know about eh_test, but we have STLport - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/stlport.lha - and even boost - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/boost.lha/
*Check - I just compiled and ran the eh_test successfully under OS 4. Time to start downloading I guess :-) Regards, -- Hans-Joerg Frieden, Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz - I-amar prestar aen / han mathon ne nen han mathon ne chae / a han noston ned 'wilith
On 2005-01-11, Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:
Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:
0. Check if Operating system provides some basics: - support of shared libraries *Check - /With help of the "dlopen/dlclose/dlsym" link library that Hans-Jörg told about do we have this/
Note that this has its limits, mainly because it is impossible to "share" the code (i.e. every opener gets its own local copy). For OOo, this shouldn't be an issue.
As far as I understand the dlsym() interface and the AmigaOS 4 interfaces, it should be quite simple to wrap an Amiga library in a dlsym() work-alike. So we could possibly use the dlsym() interface for everything internally.
*- support for processes, threads, signals, pipes etc. *Check - /With IXEmul and the pthread library made by the Friedens - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/pthread.lha/
If at all, we should avoid using ixemul. It may be useful for the utilities needed to build, but for serious system programming, we should not rely on it.
Agreed. Using ixemul would be like porting to two OS:es at once. Not that ixemul is bad, just that it adds a lot of complexity and overhead which we do not want. If possible, the OOo port should retain as much as possible of the "Amiga Snappiness".
Unfortunately this doesn't say how much of signals are required; clib2 supports most of the basic signals, but not e.g. SIG_ALARM. This warrants more research.
Do not forget the interaction of Posix threads with signals. We might also want to investigate the thread safety of some functions with regard to the _REENTRANT macro. <SNIP> -Peter aka. Archprogrammer Reality is for people who cannot face ScienceFiction. Only lefthanded people are in their right minds.
Peter Bengtsson wrote:
As far as I understand the dlsym() interface and the AmigaOS 4 interfaces, it should be quite simple to wrap an Amiga library in a dlsym() work-alike. So we could possibly use the dlsym() interface for everything internally.
The code I've written uses elf.library and loads the elf files directly, using their symbol table. Alternate versions could use a pre-defined export table and just provide a single entry that returns a symbol.
Agreed. Using ixemul would be like porting to two OS:es at once. Not that ixemul is bad, just that it adds a lot of complexity and overhead which we do not want. If possible, the OOo port should retain as much as possible of the "Amiga Snappiness".
ixemul also has the drawback of making system programs unstable. AFAIK there are strict rules about making OS calls in an ixemul-using program.
Do not forget the interaction of Posix threads with signals.
As far as POSIX signals are concerned, this might be the biggest obstacle, depending on their usage. This is again an area where we tried to improve things in OS 4 without resorting to hacks like ixemul did on 68k. Still, the definitions of posix threads and signals are, afaik, rather hazy...
We might also want to investigate the thread safety of some functions with regard to the _REENTRANT macro.
clib2 is not at all thread safe, but according to Olaf could be made so (with some effort). newlib could be made thread-safe relatively easy but lacks a lot of signal features that clib2 already has. Regards, -- Hans-Joerg Frieden, Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz - I-amar prestar aen / han mathon ne nen han mathon ne chae / a han noston ned 'wilith
Hi, Hans-Joerg Frieden wrote:
The code I've written uses elf.library and loads the elf files directly, using their symbol table. Alternate versions could use a pre-defined export table and just provide a single entry that returns a symbol.
Note, we're also working on a different system which makes use of base relative addressing... Not fleshed out yet, though (althoug a small example lib worked...)
As far as POSIX signals are concerned, this might be the biggest obstacle, depending on their usage. This is again an area where we tried to improve things in OS 4 without resorting to hacks like ixemul did on 68k. Still, the definitions of posix threads and signals are, afaik, rather hazy...
I've implemented the current library after the OpenGroup specification, which does not allow for signals. Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Hello Henning On 11/01/05, you wrote:
Just looked a bit more at the archive of dev@porting.openoffice.org
Mail - http://porting.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgId=508793 - from January 2003
*Hi,
the first steps of an OOo port can be done without OOo Source code.
< --SNIP- >
Looks like we can begin ;-)
You beat me to it. :) Aaaah well. Regards, Tim (T_Power)
Hi, Henning Nielsen Lund wrote:
- support of shared libraries *Check - /With help of the "dlopen/dlclose/dlsym" link library that Hans-Jörg told about do we have this/
The problem is, the term "shared libraries" is nonsense... Every system supports shared libraries in one way or the other. Amiga's shared library model is unfortunately completely different from the one use in, for example, Linux, so "support of shared libraries" say nothing at all.. The mechanisms might be so diferent they have nothing in common over different platforms.
*- a memory model that allows more than 64k segments
Well, that rules out DOS ;)
- hardware with at least 32M real memory support *Check - /I do not have much memory, but it is still 256MB ;-)/* - Java support would help *Not yet, but he does also say that it would help, not that it is needed* - graphical user interface (may it would possible to port it to cui based system, but would it make sense ?). if the system does not support Win32 or X Window System API you might have to implement support for your system. *Check - /Will need some more work, as we do not have X11 or Win32, but it will be worth it to support our own UI/ *- support for processes, threads, signals, pipes etc. *Check - /With IXEmul and the pthread library made by the Friedens - http://os4depot.net/showfile/?file=development/library/pthread.lha/ * and a lot of others prerequistes I do not have in mind right now.
Sounds like _any_ OS except DOS will do ;) Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Christophe Ochal wrote:
"Amiga OpenOffice.Org is a project created by the Amiga community to port OpenOffice.Org to AmigaOS. Our main focus is to port OpenOffice.Org to the newest version of AmigaOS, AmigaOS4, but we welcome everyone who can contribute to it, wether he/she is an AmigaOS3.x user, Aros user or MorphOS user."
You could add that the effort was born out of utter pissdom by a few people that where tired of seeing the usual "it cannot be done" type of comments :-) (Although, you should perhaps change the wording ;-) Regards, -- Hans-Joerg Frieden, Hans-JoergF@hyperion-entertainment.biz - I-amar prestar aen / han mathon ne nen han mathon ne chae / a han noston ned 'wilith
Hello Hans-Joerg On 11/01/2005, you wrote:
Christophe Ochal wrote:
"Amiga OpenOffice.Org is a project created by the Amiga community to port OpenOffice.Org to AmigaOS. Our main focus is to port OpenOffice.Org to the newest version of AmigaOS, AmigaOS4, but we welcome everyone who can contribute to it, wether he/she is an AmigaOS3.x user, Aros user or MorphOS user."
You could add that the effort was born out of utter pissdom by a few people that where tired of seeing the usual "it cannot be done" type of comments :-)
(Although, you should perhaps change the wording ;-)
Wiki at will ;) Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Le 11/01/2005, Hans-Joerg Frieden a écrit :
You could add that the effort was born out of utter pissdom
Perhaps this is the ideal time for me to mention that I've just invested in "Fading Suns" and the next Alchimie will be around Hallowe'en, which gives any Germanic roleplayers present on this list plenty of time to buy a really nice D20 to show off with... <evil laughter> Salutations -- Rose Humphrey /anarchic_teapot/
Hi, Rose Humphrey wrote:
Perhaps this is the ideal time for me to mention that I've just invested in "Fading Suns" and the next Alchimie will be around Hallowe'en, which gives any Germanic roleplayers present on this list plenty of time to buy a really nice D20 to show off with... <evil laughter>
Hey, I got my D20 from the Dragon's Lair... Ok, this is the name of the shop in lower Los Angeles where I bought it, but hey, sounds cool to have a D20 coming from a Dragon's Lair, doesn't it ;) Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Thomas Frieden wrote:
Hi,
Rose Humphrey wrote:
Perhaps this is the ideal time for me to mention that I've just invested in "Fading Suns" and the next Alchimie will be around Hallowe'en, which gives any Germanic roleplayers present on this list plenty of time to buy a really nice D20 to show off with... <evil laughter>
Hey, I got my D20 from the Dragon's Lair...
Ok, this is the name of the shop in lower Los Angeles where I bought it, but hey, sounds cool to have a D20 coming from a Dragon's Lair, doesn't it ;)
Hey, I got my D20 from GoblinGate ;-)
Regards,
-- Best regards, hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund
Hi, Rene W. Olsen wrote:
Hey, I got my D20 from the Dragon's Lair...
Hey, I got my D20 from GoblinGate ;-)
Okey whats a D20? just wondering.
It's a 20-sided die used in roleplaying games. (If you never saw one, try to figure out how it looks like, and consider that there's also a D100 ;) Regards, -- Thomas Frieden <ThomasF@hyperion-entertainment.biz> Hyperion Entertainment - Naur dan i-deryg lhuin
Rene W. Olsen wrote:
Okey whats a D20? just wondering.
Its a very expensive Canon Digital SLR. Or is that the 20d? -- Olly. http://thinkdrastic.net/
Christophe Ochal said:
Maybe appointing a PR guy would be usefull already :p
Just the other day I gave you 36 hours from end of vote until head honcho has his team ready, so START WORKING, FOR HEAVENS SAKES :-P (Sorry if that sounded evil. I just had to ;-) ) -- We'll crash into that bridge when we get there.
Hello Olegil On 11/01/2005, you wrote:
Christophe Ochal said:
Maybe appointing a PR guy would be usefull already :p
Just the other day I gave you 36 hours from end of vote until head honcho has his team ready, so START WORKING, FOR HEAVENS SAKES :-P (Sorry if that sounded evil. I just had to ;-) )
Erm, why do you think i wanted to have an IRC meeting & appoint you to that task? :D Regards -- Amon_Re Christophe Ochal Hoge Buizemont 168 9500 Geraardsbergen, Belgium Mobile: 0032 (0)479/46 45 74 http://www.kefren.be http://www.metalfest.be
Thomas Frieden said:
Hi,
Olegil at home wrote:
(Sorry if that sounded evil. I just had to ;-) )
No need to apologize, you always sound somewhat evil ;)
Actually, that's one of the things I took up with my boss last year. We kinda have the same kind of humour, and I told him we had to shape up, or we would never be able to find someone sensible to work with us :-P Now we're hiring a bunch of people, and I think this time there'll be people who aren't just like us among them :-) So hopefully I'll adjust to a more normal humour with a bit of training :-P I've used up all my good bridge-jokes as well, now (I have three different ones in my sigs, mozilla at work, webmail from home, pine when I'm directly on the mailserver (listserver, in fact). I have about 4-5 ones I type in manuall if I feel like it. Most of them are from cheesy TV shows. Richard Dean Anderson/Stargate SGI inspired most of them. The number of cheesy comment his character has said over the years is almost impressive, if it wasn't so depressive :-P ) So now I had to make one up -- We'll completely fail to find that bridge when we get there.
wiki and user registeration now work on the site. Ive also setup an online project mangement system for Christophe to evaluate at http://dev.amigaopenoffice.org/ Regards David Doyle (DaveyD) Owner/Webmaster Amigaworld.net
----- Original Message ----- From: "Olegil at home" <olegil@samfundet.no> To: <openoffice-os4@samfundet.no> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [OO.org-OS4] Mission statement
So now I had to make one up
-- We'll completely fail to find that bridge when we get there.
Did you also have: We'll throw ourselves off that bridge when we get there? ;-)
participants (13)
-
Andy Hall -
Christophe Ochal -
David Doyle -
Hans-Joerg Frieden -
Henning Nielsen Lund -
Olegil at home -
Olly Hodgson -
Peter Bengtsson -
Rene W. Olsen -
Rose Humphrey -
stephane richard -
Thomas Frieden -
Timothy Cameron